Beginner Questions

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Crashediv

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Ok, I have started gathering the beginings of a reloading set, I have a set of RCBS dies for 7.62x54R , I have a lee reloading 50th anniv kit, I have privi brass and the lyman reloading manual (which has been a great source of info)

The one point I find lacking the most in info so far really, is cleaning.

More so for fired brass, do you clean, lube size/deprime? or do you lube deprime and then clean?

Also, what do you use to clean? I think i'm looking at probably ultrasonic, but is there really any great difference between tumbler and ultrasonic?

Also reccomendations for replacing the scale?

Cheers,
 
Crashediv said:
Ok, I have started gathering the beginings of a reloading set, I have a set of RCBS dies for 7.62x54R , I have a lee reloading 50th anniv kit, I have privi brass and the lyman reloading manual (which has been a great source of info)

The one point I find lacking the most in info so far really, is cleaning.

More so for fired brass, do you clean, lube size/deprime? or do you lube deprime and then clean?

Also, what do you use to clean? I think i'm looking at probably ultrasonic, but is there really any great difference between tumbler and ultrasonic?

Also reccomendations for replacing the scale?

Cheers,
Click to expand...

I'm in the lube, deprime, clean camp. I wet tumble in porcelain beads so get cleaned primer pockets in the process. Downside is that your primer pockets can wind up with media stuck in them which needs to be picked out. If you go ultrasonic, this won't be a problem.

Scales ? Redding, RCBS, Hornady balance beams. I'd avoid digitals in similar price ranges.
 
To make things simple, I break down handloading into 2 phases:

1) Brass Preperation (totally void if brass is never fired)
2) Loading the round


For cleanish rifle brass prep, you will need to:
a) Deprime and resize (USE LOTS OF LUBE).
b) Trim
c) if the brass is dirty, tumble or ultrasonic clean before resizing (universal decaping die is nice for depriming -> ultrasonic clean -> resize)

Make sure you have a case trimmer, absolutly manditory for rifle brass.


Once the cases are clean (not manditory), deprimed, rezised, and trimmed, the rest is downhill. Just prime, charge, and seat to milspec dimensions for non-precision rifles.



I replaced my s**tty Hornady electronic scale for a RCBS 5-0-2 scale (found it cheap on the EE)

My case trimmer is expensive, $100 Forester precision grade mini lathe thingy.
 
Next question, when do you know you need to trim the case? The book says 4 trims and the case is done, but you should be able to fire 2-15 times before it is void, so how does one notice that it needs to be trimmed? Measure the length and if its too long?
 
measuring

C iv

In your list of gear you don't mention a set of calipers, Mastercraft at Canadian tire have them for around $40. You should not load anything except possibly brand new brass with out measuring the length of each piece. Brass that is too long for your chamber will give you issues if you try and load it. FS
 
Crashediv said:
Next question, when do you know you need to trim the case? Measure the length and if its too long?
Click to expand...

Yes ! As Fassteel points out, this is important. Rifle brass will grow. If you don't trim accordingly you could wind up crimping your bullet onto the case mouth at the rifling when you chamber your cartridge,,, kaboom!

This isn't an issue with straight walled pistol cartridges.
 
Mostly, you were given good information.
A bit of the bad was, "Use lots of lubrication."
Too much lubrication will badly dent the shoulders of your cases.
Good lubrication can be used sparingly.
Super good lubrication can be used very, very sparingly.
Super good lubrication is, maybe among others, Redding Imperial Sizing Die wax and STP, the type lubricant designed to go in the oil in automotive engines.
Digital calipres are excellent to have, but as a point of interest, I safely and successfully, reloaded rifle ammunition for thirty years, without any tool for measuring the length of the case.
What I did was have a factory loaded cartridge of the calibre I was reloading for. I would place my fired brass beside the new factory load and look at it. If the fired case was visibly longer than the new case, I would decide if it was long enough that it should be trimmed.
The danger of using brass that is too long in the neck, is that it will extend in to the part of the chamber that is reduced in size. This can pinch the rim of the neck onto the bullet and create extra pressure.
Everything to do with firearms and ammunition is built to standard sizes. And everyone of these listed dimensions has a leeway, whereby a certain amount less, or more, will still fall within the industry standards.
Thus, the chambers of rifles are cut with a leeway, allowing for the case to be a bit longer, and still be within industry standards and safe to use.
When I was comparing the length of my used case against a new case, it may have been a wee bit longer, but if I couldn't easily detect that it was longer, I knew it was perfectly safe to shoot. And by the way, it would also not effect accuracy, if it was 2 or 5 thousand's longer.
 
Fassteel said:
Mastercraft at Canadian tire have them for around $40.
Click to expand...

I got mine for $15 on sale, best buy in my reloading set up. The Mastercraft calipers are very precise and consistent.


For trimming, it's not a 4 strike rule. SOme cases need ALOT of trimming, some need almost none. This is why inspecting your cases before you load is important.

Just trim whenever it is neccessary. There should be a "trim length" and "max case length" in your manual. Just keep the case lengths between those two figures.

For example, 223 has a case trim length of 1.750" abd a max length of 1.760". My Lapua brass came at 1.748", so I'll not need to trim it until it exceeds 1.750"; however, for non-precision loads, you can let the cases vary until 1.760" is exceeded (for 223).
 
Even if you buy new bulk brass in sealed bags it still needs to be run through your sizing die to round out the case necks.
If you check the necks on 100 "new" brass you'll likely find a half dozen or more that are out of round or worse yet split or irregular cut ends.
 
HKMark23 said:
[trimming] isn't an issue with straight walled pistol cartridges.
Click to expand...

On that note, I had issues with my .40 S&W. I did not want a crimp so I set my seating die too shallow. 4 of 50 rounds did not fit in the chamber and many more were a tight fit, causing some stopages. I originally though the cases were too long but...

The problem was instantly fixed once I screwed the seating die in deeper so it would crimp the end of the round.

Basically, if you're loading straight walled cartriges, do not set the seating die too shallow. I'm using Hornady New Dimension Titanium Nitride dies.

Just an FYI
 
Haagen_Dazs said:
On that note, I had issues with my .40 S&W. I did not want a crimp so I set my seating die too shallow. 4 of 50 rounds did not fit in the chamber and many more were a tight fit, causing some stopages. I originally though the cases were too long but...

The problem was instantly fixed once I screwed the seating die in deeper so it would crimp the end of the round.

Basically, if you're loading straight walled cartriges, do not set the seating die too shallow. I'm using Hornady New Dimension Titanium Nitride dies.

Just an FYI
Click to expand...

Straight walled pistol cartridges head space on the case mouth and aren't worked on by an expander ball in the sizing die. For these reasons the brass doesn't tend to grow and the crimping I referred to with regard to rifle brass doesn't apply. What you're describing above is typical of an operation where the bell is not taken out of the case mouth of a pistol round. Thats really a different problem.

Even when you intentionally crimp pistol brass (using a factory crimp die intended for that purpose) the crimp has only the integrity of the brass holding it. The crimp I refer to with over long rifle brass is actually held in place by the narrow part of the rifle chamber and thus can increase pressures dramatically.

Point being, trim rifle brass to within spec. Particularly if you're new to reloading.
 
You can by individual case length trimmers for almost all cartidge sizes from lee very cheap as well and than you know you are right on the money everytime very easy to use and very inexpensive to buy for each calibre you have!!
 
Personally, I run all fired cases through a depriming die and then into a tumbler to clean them up. I find I need to knock out some priming compound at the end, but they're now clean.

If I'm working on an accuracy load, I will then manually clean primer pockets. If it's 9mm or something, I generally let it go.

Once all that is done, it's lube, size and carry on.

Case lengthening depends a lot on how hot the loads are. Mild loads may not produce significant stretching at all.
 
H4831 said:
Mostly, you were given good information.
A bit of the bad was, "Use lots of lubrication."
Too much lubrication will badly dent the shoulders of your cases.
Good lubrication can be used sparingly.
Super good lubrication can be used very, very sparingly.
Super good lubrication is, maybe among others, Redding Imperial Sizing Die wax and STP, the type lubricant designed to go in the oil in automotive engines.
Digital calipres are excellent to have, but as a point of interest, I safely and successfully, reloaded rifle ammunition for thirty years, without any tool for measuring the length of the case.
What I did was have a factory loaded cartridge of the calibre I was reloading for. I would place my fired brass beside the new factory load and look at it. If the fired case was visibly longer than the new case, I would decide if it was long enough that it should be trimmed.
The danger of using brass that is too long in the neck, is that it will extend in to the part of the chamber that is reduced in size. This can pinch the rim of the neck onto the bullet and create extra pressure.
Everything to do with firearms and ammunition is built to standard sizes. And everyone of these listed dimensions has a leeway, whereby a certain amount less, or more, will still fall within the industry standards.
Thus, the chambers of rifles are cut with a leeway, allowing for the case to be a bit longer, and still be within industry standards and safe to use.
When I was comparing the length of my used case against a new case, it may have been a wee bit longer, but if I couldn't easily detect that it was longer, I knew it was perfectly safe to shoot. And by the way, it would also not effect accuracy, if it was 2 or 5 thousand's longer.
Click to expand...
]

As a point of interest Bruce are you suggesting to the young men out there that are interested in reloading that it can be done without calipers? I'm missing the interesting point?
How much was a set of calipers worth 40 years ago. FS
 
You will learn to come up with a procedure that works best for you with the equipment you have. When you find that there is a bottle neck that seems to take in inordinate amount of time, you can upgrade your equipment to accommodate that. I believe it is a good idea to true up new brass to uniform the necks that can be badly dented during shipping and handling. Imperial Sizing Wax for my money is the best available, and should only be applied sparingly to the cartridge only below the shoulder of a bottle neck case. Once the inside of the die is covered, you'll need to use very little on each case. The first case you resize, you may want to work back and forth through the die to aid coating the interior surfaces with lube. Don't overlook dry neck lube for the case mouths. This prevents the sizing button from dragging and squeaking as it passes through the neck. If you have to use excessive force to pull the sizing button through the neck, you could loose the concentricity of the neck. All you have to do is dip the case mouth into the powder prior to lubing the case. Imperial Sizing Wax is easily wiped off the brass with nothing more than a clean paper towel.

Purchase a scale check weight set. They run about $30, and take all the guess work out of the quality of your scale. If you put a 50 gr weight on the pan and it reads 50 grs, thats good, but it might not. If the scale returns to the same reading every time you bump the pan, that's good, if it doesn't don't use that scale. If after zeroing the scale, the scale reading differs from your check weight, simply zero the scale to the weight you have on the pan. My technique now is to zero the scale to the check weights equal to the charge I intend to load, this works if you load in half gr increments, but if you want smaller increments you'll have to trust your scale, which with that small an adjustment won't get you in trouble.

With respect to trimming brass, I've come across new brass that needs trimming right out of the bag. If you are loading a single cartridge, it is a simple matter to adjust your trimmer to the correct trim length, then use the trimmer to check the length of each fired case after full length resizing.

With respect to cleaning brass, when I used a tumbler I found it easier to tumble the brass prior to resizing, read with spent primers still in the case. This avoids the tedious necessity of pushing kernels of media out of the flash hole and primer pockets. Today I mostly use an ultrasonic cleaner, and clean after resizing, read with spent primers removed. The Ultra sonic cleans the brass more quickly, but now you've got to deal with drying the inside of a wet case. This can be done if you have a compressor with a blower chuck, or by placing the brass on a cookie sheet and putting it in a 100 degree oven for an hour or two.
 
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