beo mags, yes beo mags, what's going on?

Daver_II said:
Yes, I am actually going through that process with the tech lab.

You do realize that those sample were submitted. and approved.
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The fact they were once approved means very little. The lab has changed their mind before(cz858), given enough time they'll change their mind on something else too.
 
Daver_II said:
You do realize that those sample were submitted. and approved.
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sample of what?

Magazines never were required to be submitted and nobody has ever said they did submit one from AA

I know Armtac, the original importer for AA submitted a 50 beowulf magazine of their own design years ago and the RCMP SFSS told them every 50 beowulf and 458 magazine they had seen up to that point were prohibited just like the one they submitted.

I don't know how I missed this post

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...ing-stupid?p=11386913&viewfull=1#post11386913

Post 114

ARMTAC said:
Being the dealer with Alexander Arms, we were originally going to manufacturer the polymer version of the .50 Beowulf mags in Korea completely with a new mold 2 years ago. We have one currently sitting with RCMP for inspection, however, numerous email with RCMP did mentioned that they will not likely going to approve any .50 Beowulf magazine.

Here is a portion of the communication I have with RCMP

"Across the spectrum of numerous inspections, RCMP-SFSS has not seen a single 50 Beowulf magazine or a single 458 Socom Calibre magazine for the AR-15 platform that is not prohibited. This is because the magazine designs we have seen have been adapted from the AR-15/M16 5.56 x 45 mm design to accommodate the 458 Socom & 50 Beowulf calibre cartridge but have never lost the 5.56 mm design features.

I am not here to argue, I am here to tell people what SFSS told me.

It really doesn't make any sense to me either, but a lot of stuffs in life doesn't make any sense as well.
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Runningfool said:
He made a deal? They dropped all of the charges and kept 2 of his Beowulf mags.

Let’s make this perfectly clear right now. The deal he made was to forfeit 2 beo mags and in exchange ALL of the firearms charges against him were dropped; not just the prohib device X 2 charges, but the other ones he faced as well.

So in summary, we currently only know of two concrete examples of someone being charged with these mags and in one instance the charges were dropped and the magazines returned and in the other the charges were dropped but the magazines were not returned.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...device-*victory!*?highlight=Prohibited+device
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the case where charges were claimed to have been dropped and magazines returned there is no record of to know if it actually happened. No lawyers name who acted on the accused behalf, file number, nothing.

Not even anything other lawyers looking could find. If he was charged and had the charges dismissed, that paperwork would be ideal to have as it would show why the crown did not proceed and returned prohibited devices to the accused.

If this did actually happen, hopefully the guy pulls his head out if the sand and gets some paperwork of the discharge
 
regardless of who is right or wrong here you better have deep pockets to fight if you get charged. imo not worth risking my career or my families financial stability over 4 extra rounds.
 
b_w. said:
regardless of who is right or wrong here you better have deep pockets to fight if you get charged. imo not worth risking my career or my families financial stability over 4 extra rounds.
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I don't disagree with you. And I don't use mine lightly. But I do think that not pressuring the government will erode our freedoms
 
Daver_II said:
I don't disagree with you. And I don't use mine lightly. But I do think that not pressuring the government will erode our freedoms
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to apply pressure someone needs to get charged and take it all the way to court. It seems a legal challenge of the rcmp on its own will never be allowed to see a courtroom
 
b_w. said:
regardless of who is right or wrong here you better have deep pockets to fight if you get charged. imo not worth risking my career or my families financial stability over 4 extra rounds.
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Everybody parrots this notion but the only 2 examples we have of anyone getting charged did not result in “needing deep pockets” nor any of the other myriad of nasty things that according to CGN lore will happen for certain (guns confiscated and never returned, lose your firearms licence, risk career, #### falls off, etc.).

I’m not saying there is zero risk but the fact remains, according to the only known examples we have, the risk appears to be that you might not get your beo mags back.

Of course one of these days the crown may decide to prosecute a prohib device charge in relation to these magazines but so far they seem unwilling or unable to do so. Will they? Well that is the $64,000 question. Maybe they don’t need to because most are scared into compliance and they’ve essentially choked the manufacture and import of new beo mags. Maybe they don’t want to because they know there is a decent chance it won’t go their way and all of those who were scared into compliance will move their rivets back to 5 and the floodgates will be opened for the manufacture and import of beo mags.
 
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Runningfool said:
Everybody parrots this notion but the only 2 examples we have of anyone getting charged did not result in “needing deep pockets” nor any of the other myriad of nasty things that according to CGN lore will happen for certain (guns confiscated and never returned, lose your firearms licence, risk career, #### falls off, etc.).

I’m not saying there is zero risk but the fact remains, according to the only known examples we have, the risk appears to be that you might not get your beo mags back.

Of course one of these days the crown may decide to prosecute a prohib device charge in relation to these magazines but so far they seem unwilling or unable to do so. Will they? Well that is the $64,000 question. Maybe they don’t need to because most are scared into compliance and they’ve essentially choked the manufacture and import of new beo mags. Maybe they don’t want to because they know there is a decent chance it won’t go their way and all of those who were scared into compliance will move their rivets back to 5 and the floodgates will be opened for the manufacture and import of beo mags.
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Being arrested and charged is not without cost while you wait a year or more with a retained lawyer to see if the crown offers you a deal just before the trial date to keep the mags in exchange for dropping charges. The above is exactly how it went for the one case we can actually confirm happened, you can ask the accused in that case what his total legal cost was if you want exact numbers. I do however know a good criminal lawyer in BC starts at $500hr

For many people, simply being charged with a criminal offense means instant job loss
 
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beltfed said:
I’m not a lawyer so this post is information/entertainment value only; I’m not here to side with any one view.
This is my first and last post on this subject. Please don’t ask me for particulars or to fill in the blanks, either through a post or via PM, as I will not answer them:

I have numerous ARs and have and do use them in competition; in Service Rifle, CQB and 3-gun competitions.

I know people that work for municipalities and enforce provincial and municipal regulations, so I have some knowledge in dealing with laws, the interpretation of laws how they are written, laying of charges and seeing those through with a prosecutor. They work as a team, and the team meets on a regular basis to discuss investigations and charge files.
Imho, Prosecutors look at files objectively, two questions that are paramount in their eyes would be: Is the prosecution of this charge in the public interest? Is conviction likely if it goes to trial?

I’ve recently had a conversation with a friend who works for a federal agency that deals specifically with firearms.
I have no specific knowledge of how they operate, but I suspect it would be similar to the model above whereby they meet with their prosecutor and discuss certain issues.

Like every other segment of our population, there are individual LEOs, garbage men, carpenters, lawyers, politicians, etc. that are ‘gun guys or gals’, those that are generally neutral, and those that are of the belief that firearms regulations should be improved, modified, etc.
At the end of the day though there are those that are sworn to uphold the laws as they are written and interpreted, and are expected to do their jobs in a professional manner with emotional detachment.
If it is one thing we, as a ‘gun community’ can all agree on is that laws can and are poorly written, segments of the Firearms Act & Criminal Code being no exception. Within the writing of the Firearms Act there is some ‘grey area’ where a lawyer could argue for or against certain issues.
No ‘gun guy’ or ‘gun gal’ I know are in favour of further regulation, and if there exists so called ‘loop holes’ or ‘grey areas’ that foster allowances, such as pistol mags containing 10 rounds being used in a rifle, or 13 rounds of 9mm used in a .40 s&w mag, then great.

It is my understanding that the 5 round Beowulf mag does not presently, in the eyes of those regulatory bodies who would deal specifically with firearms, enjoy the shade of these so called ‘loop holes’ or ‘grey areas’.
If a ‘gun guy or gal’ is found in possession of a 5 round Beowolf mag, the magazine, presently, is considered a prohibited device, and that individual could likely be charged.
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#### Proenneke said:
Well stated. I concur.
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Thanks. Although I’m not sure if some guys here will be savvy enough to read between the lines. I hope so for their sake.
 
Brian46 said:
For many people, simply being charged with a criminal offense means instant job loss
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*Convicted*

I guarantee if someone loses their job on a charge, and they are successful in having it dropped or winning the court case.... They will get a very sizeable settlement.
 
Daver_II said:
*Convicted*

I guarantee if someone loses their job on a charge, and they are successful in having it dropped or winning the court case.... They will get a very sizeable settlement.
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If your work requires you to be bonded or insured, a criminal charge is all it takes to no longer be eligible to work. You sign documents when hired that you will be immediately dismissed without compensation in such an event

Also if you are an owner or director of a company, you sign papers every year stating you have no criminal record or pending criminal charges. I sign these each year for my companies in BC which are filed in Victoria.
 
Brian46 said:
If your work requires you to be bonded or insured, a criminal charge is all it takes to no longer be eligible to work. You sign documents when hired that you will be immediately dismissed without compensation in such an event

Also if you are an owner or director of a company, you sign papers every year stating you have no criminal record or pending criminal charges. I sign these each year for my companies in BC which are filed in Victoria.
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You may not be employed pending the outcome. But without a conviction they can not fire you.
 
If there was a market, dedicated 50BEO mags would have been produced long ago. Remove the bend on the feed lips, so they don't hold 5.56 double stack, and problem solved.

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