Berdan primers
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Doing some mesurement.....diameter is good...but I do not understand the height...
I have 1200 rds of some old(1969) chez stuff(black primer)lots of hang fires and miss fires....used a verity of guns to shoot it....groups good.The powder is good,but you have to beat the shiit out of the primer to get it to go(yes, I tried tight head spacing,heaver springs..) ..Hate to see good ammo go to waste
Has any one loaded berdan!!
I have 1200 rds of some old(1969) chez stuff(black primer)lots of hang fires and miss fires....used a verity of guns to shoot it....groups good.The powder is good,but you have to beat the shiit out of the primer to get it to go(yes, I tried tight head spacing,heaver springs..) ..Hate to see good ammo go to waste
Has any one loaded berdan!!
I haven't loaded bedan brass, but i did convert some fired berdan brass to boxer. I followed the instructions here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?143958-Converting-Berdan-primer-pockets-to-Boxer . It's not a fast process but it does work.
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I would only load Berdan in a caliber for which boxer brass was not available.
If you are loading 308, just buy some once fired boxer brass and be done with it.
I just happen to have a few thousand pieces of the same lot number fired by a sniper team in nice bolt action rifles.
If you are loading 308, just buy some once fired boxer brass and be done with it.
I just happen to have a few thousand pieces of the same lot number fired by a sniper team in nice bolt action rifles.
There is some fine information on the suggested website. Just understand, the poster there is using cast bullets. The pressures are much lower.
IMHO, I would strongly advise against using this method if you are intending on loading jacketed bullets at specified velocities and pressures.
The powders used for those loads were never intended for three different jets of flame for ignition and are more likely than not to give you excessive pressures. Low capacity loads, are more likely to give you detonation, rather than ignition.
If you are bound and determined to use cases modified like this, I would also suggest that you use the slowest powders reccomended or even slower to keep the pressures within limits.
IMHO, I would strongly advise against using this method if you are intending on loading jacketed bullets at specified velocities and pressures.
The powders used for those loads were never intended for three different jets of flame for ignition and are more likely than not to give you excessive pressures. Low capacity loads, are more likely to give you detonation, rather than ignition.
If you are bound and determined to use cases modified like this, I would also suggest that you use the slowest powders reccomended or even slower to keep the pressures within limits.
That's an interesting pov. I have loaded berdan brass converted to boxer igniton at original specifications with jacketed bullets and did not note any sign of pressure, but it was not high pressure ammo either. I do not really understand how three jets of flame can be produced from that converted brass since the anvil is drilled out and a boxer primer is used.
I was not aware that powders used for boxer primed cartridges were unsuitable for loading in berdan primed cartridges. If this is the case where does one find loading data for berdan primed cartridges?
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There isn't any difference between the powders used for Boxer or Berdan primers.
The two flash holes used in Berdan primed brass have about the same surface area as the single flash hole used with Boxer primed brass.
When you drill out the center of the Berdan brass, you effectively double the flame being forced into the powder column upon ignition. Theoretically this will ignite more powder and increase the pressure spike at first ignition.
I have noticed, with brass that I've converted, especially the 6.5 Jap brass fairly recently, that there is now a serious pressure ring, just ahead of the web. These cases were picked up at a gun show and were once fired WWII. The brass was soft and I neck sized only. I loaded them to around 45,000 psi or 42,000cup. Lighter than the original milspec loads. The recoil was stout to say the least.
Back in the early 70s, finding 6.5x55 brass was like finding hen's teeth. Lots of milsurp ammo to be had and cheap. The only thing was, it was extremely corrosive. Sometimes you couldn't get home fast enough to clean it up and you definitely had to use hot soapy water to make sure it came clean.
I don't mind cleaning my firearms but we all know, the more you disassemble them completely, the more dings and scratches they seem to accumulate. Even the screw slots tend to get deformed, even if, like me, you're anal about screwdrivers that fit properly.
Anyway, I had enough of corrosive primed ammo and decided to pick up a Berdan decapping tool. Pain in the butt. I even went so far as to make up several tools, with double punch ends or offset, single punch ends to punch out the primers. Again, pain in the butt. The hydraulic method actually worked the best and fastest. Thing is, I had to make a special fitting that would fit over the case neck tight enough to allow the pressure inside the case to get high enough to pop out the primer. Usually, a sharp rap on the plunger rod was enough to get them out. Then there was the water mess.
Finally, I broke down. I took 60 cases and cleaned up the anvils. Then, drilled out the centers. The first batch, had flash holes the same size of the normal flash holes on Boxer brass. The first thing I noticed, with the #44 powder (IMR 3031) that came from old Tom Higginson, was that the rounds were darn hot for the old Swede M96. The powder was actually surplus Swede and intended for the cartridges. The bullets I was shooting then were also surplus Swede 160 grain cupro nickle fmj. All loaded to milspec. The only difference, the extra flash hole. Not really understanding what was happening, and because the loads were very accurate, I blissfully went on my merry way.
A good friend, wanted some brass made up for himself and I graciously told him he could have the stuff I had loaded up and just keep the brass.
To make a long story short, He fired about 15 rounds out of his rifle, which was one of the very early 1900 Mauserwerke produced rifles and blew the receiver ring off the top. It also bulged the barrel.
Now, I must stress the fact that these loads were well within spec. Actually slightly over mid range suggested by the Higginson's loading charts and very similar to the Hornady reloading manuals. The only reason I can give for the KaBoom was the extra flash hole. There were no signs of any problems with the receiver. There were no voids or discolorations on the breaks.
I sent that receiver to PO Ackley's shop in Utah and he verified my suspicions and said that he had similar results with such primer pocket conversions.
What he did reccomend, was to make the extra flash hole to the smallest size possible. Similar to small rifle primers. Then substitute another expander ball that is specially made up for small diameter decapping pins.
I guess the old addage about starting over at the minimum powder charge and working it up whenever a major component in a load is changed is still good advice after all.
Why don't you just get yourself some boxer 308 brass and prime them and then swap out the components (bullet and power) Do a couple and try them to make sure there are no presure issues. If they are ok just do it that way and forget about messing around with that berdan primed junk.
Graydog
Graydog
Some really good ideas....Ya,it would be easier just to salvage the componets and use boxer brass,BUT after reading the other alternatives,I am going to "try" these on a small scale for experimental purposes.
.....what does once fired 308 brass go for these days(please,no fancy stuff)
.....what does once fired 308 brass go for these days(please,no fancy stuff)
When I bought the first components package from International, the cases were loaded with wooden bullets and a fast burning flake pistol powder. It also included a bunch of the Higginson #44 powder and pulled 160 grain fmj. At first, it was simple, just pull the wooden bullets with a pair of pliers and throw them away. Dump the flake powder into a jar and save it for experimentation in pistol rounds. Then, slightly flare out the mouth of the case, add a charge of #44 powder and insert the bullet, making sure to crimp it as reccomended. That's when I first found out about Tom Higginson and his company. #44 Bofors powder was less than $4/lb, shipped and the projectiles, rangeing from 90 grains to 160 grains were around 6 cents each delivered.
That was over 40 years ago. I didn't know enough about what went on inside a cartridge case. I did know enough to start with light loads and go from there. As I mentioned, the pressures I was loading to were safe in my rifles, even thouth they were on the soft side. Also, I was using Swedish milspec powder and bullets at their recomended factory spec load. There shouldn't have been any problems.
There certainly weren't when I used the original Berdan primers in unaltered cases. I just didn't know enough about what would happen when one more hole with a similar area to the original two small holes together was added to the mix. It is pretty simple, now that I know better. Live and learn. Even the minimum charge would have been to hot. In fact, the original Bofors #44 powder was no longer the right powder for the case and components being used. H4831 or something even slower would likely have been much better.
I only do it for obsolete brass I can't find boxer brass to replace, because it is a bit of a PIA. If you do convert a few, back the load off to start. .308 is a relatively high pressure cartridge to start with and there's not so much room for error. You've made major change to a major component and for that we should ALWAYS start low and work up.
1-F .308 brass will cost you about $0.10 each if you can find it locally. There is usually some available on the EE if you watch for it but if you have to pay shipping you might as well buy new brass locally.
1-F .308 brass will cost you about $0.10 each if you can find it locally. There is usually some available on the EE if you watch for it but if you have to pay shipping you might as well buy new brass locally.
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The golden days of reloading. We didn't know how good we had it.
