Berdan vs Boxer

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Has any one ever tested the accuracy of ammunition based solely on primer type.Example of let's say,308 win.Keeping everything the same except the primer type.I know the brass will be different,but both can be match prepped.
I keep thinking that berdan primed would give better ignition and less pressure on the primer cup.
I can not find good articals that give good test results (I want numbers )
Some insight would be good.......I know there are some ole timers here who have hunted the dinosaurs that my give some knowledge on this subject
 
Berdan brass has two flash holes, while boxer brass has one in the center. In the real world it is better to have two flames from two directions to ignite the mixture. Automotive engineers did lots of testing ans some engines were designed for a reason to have either two spark plugs or two or more spark electrodes to reliably ignite what ever is in the cylinder. Regarding ammo, berdan primed ammo should be more reliable ignition wise. For our purposes of reloading we get easier reloadable boxer brass, while we may lose a bit in reliability department. Military berdan brass is made to be once fired and thrown away. That's it.
Further more from this stand point, berdan primed ammo is more stable in ignition, therfore may be more accurate.
However it all depends on conditions of storage and use. Boxer is just easier for roading, no other advantages in my opinion
 
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Berdan brass has two flash holes, while boxer brass has one in the center. In the real world it is better to have two flames from two directions to ignite the mixture. Automotive engineers did lots of testing ans some engines were designed for a reason to have either two spark plugs or two or more spark electrodes to reliably ignite what ever is in the cylinder. Regarding ammo, berdan primed ammo should be more reliable ignition wise. For our purposes of reloading we get easier reloadable boxer brass, while we may lose a bit in reliability department. Military berdan brass is made to be once fired and thrown away. That's it.
Further more from this stand point, berdan primed ammo is more stable in ignition, therfore may be more accurate.
However it all depends on conditions of storage and use. Boxer is just easier for roading, no other advantages in my opinion

Some of this is correct but when push comes to shove most cartridges including commercial are made to be fired once and discarded.

Handloading was something that came about because of lack of cases and expense of loaded ammo. Even some militaries in the world reload their spent cases for practice sessions to save money. It's also one reason why many nations opt for steel cases instead of brass. Both types of ammo can be easily reloaded if you have the proper tools.

It's an absolute shame to discard some of the best brass cartridge cases made because they are Berdan primed.

Hirtenberger 7.62x51 and Ruag 7.62x55 as well as some brass cased 7.62x54R, 8x57, 7x57, 6.5x55, 6.5x53 and 6.5x51 etc. Some obsolete ammo like the 6.5 Jap etc used to be almost impossible to find with boxer primed brass. The only alternative was to form cases from other cases which may or may not be acceptable or only viable for one use.

Berdan primers are available from Canada Ammo, a banner sponsor. There are other suppliers in Canada as well. Do a Google search.

It's easy to make up a hand punch for Berdan primer removal. I don't know of a cleaner way to do it. I find a drill stem that will fit into one of the flash holes and make up a rod that will fit into the casemouth. Then move the stem around until it goes into one of the holes. Put the case head onto a holder and with a light hammer punch out the primer.

One other thing, some Berdan primed cases have crimped primer pockets. The crimp needs to be removed before another primer can be inserted. Some Boxer cases are done in a similar manner.

I did some tests on 6.5x55, 303Brit, 7.62x51 with both primers, with identical loads at identical ranges, under identical conditions. Velocities were very close as could be expected from different batches of brass. Accuracy was pretty much identical.

One other thing to consider. If two flash holes were that much better the BENCH REST shooters would use it exclusively. That's one of the reasons I did the comparison experiments. In the case of the 6.5x55 and the 7.62x51 the tests were conducted on Hunter Bench Rest match rifles with 6X AO high quality scopes.

If you have a quantity of excellent brass with Berdan primers and are willing to spend a bit more time prepping it's well worth the effort, especially at the cost of brass today.

My only issue with Berdan primers is that it only comes in one flame temp. That's all I can find anyway.
 
I recall that years ago there was discussion of this topic in Precision Shooting magazine. Thought was that Berdan did have an accuracy advantage, resulting from more uniform ignition.
 
The only trouble with the two spark plugs per cylinder in an engine analogy is they are two distinct ignition sources per cylinder... a berdan primer is still only one ignition source as the boxer primer, albeit with two flash holes. I've seen berdan cases (pistol) with only one flash hole.

I know, and see conclusively the result of two spark plugs per cylinder on efficiency: Part of aircraft run up procedure is testing both magnetos. Normally the engine runs with both magnetos, but during the pre-flight run up, each one is shut off in turn and the pilot is looking for noticeable change in RPM (to verify function of both): It should be a consistent loss of RPM as each magneto is shut off. Greatest reason for two magnetos is reliability: The engine will still run if one magneto fails as each magneto fires it's own set of sparkplugs... eg. a 4 cylinder engine has two magnetos and 8 spark plugs. Therefore, I have no doubt that two hole berdan brass will have more reliable and faster ignition... given that there are one and two hole berdan brass, I wonder why manufacturer's haven't produced three or four flash hole brass? Marginal gains? I'd suggest that two is optimum for berdan brass: There can't be one central flash hole on account of the anvil being center and in a rifle case a single off center hole would probably result in more un-burned powder flying out the muzzle.

Boxer is most efficient if all aspects of shooting are considered. The precision that has been attained with boxer primers is ample evidence that any further improvement could only be measured microscopically. ;)
 
Berdan is better. But a royal pain in the ass to work with.

In Australia the target rifle rules originally required shooters to use the military issue ammo they were supplied.

Then the rules changed, and they were allowed to re-load, but had to use the military components, which they bought in bulk.

Originally the components were Berdan, but there was grumbling about what a pain it was, so they were then supplied Boxer brass and primers.

Then the grumbling was that it was not as accurate as the old stuff.

ADI (the manufacturer) did some good research on primers, and found that SD was inversely proportional to the flash hole size. Berdan was better because it had small diameter flash holes.

The Lapua Palma brass now has a small flash hole, and guys may have to change their decapper die to get a small pin.

As I have said in this forum, more than once. DON"T drill out a flash hole.
 
Berdan is better. But a royal pain in the ass to work with.

In Australia the target rifle rules originally required shooters to use the military issue ammo they were supplied.

Then the rules changed, and they were allowed to re-load, but had to use the military components, which they bought in bulk.

Originally the components were Berdan, but there was grumbling about what a pain it was, so they were then supplied Boxer brass and primers.

Then the grumbling was that it was not as accurate as the old stuff.

ADI (the manufacturer) did some good research on primers, and found that SD was inversely proportional to the flash hole size. Berdan was better because it had small diameter flash holes.

The Lapua Palma brass now has a small flash hole, and guys may have to change their decapper die to get a small pin.

As I have said in this forum, more than once. DON"T drill out a flash hole.


Now that's interesting. In my tests with a precision rifle there was little detectable difference between the two types and the Rem 700 with a match Hart HBR profile barrel was quite responsive to component changes. I found that over 200 rounds of each type of primer, using W748 powder and 135 grain Randy Robinette's match flat base, hollow point bullets with J4 jackets that velocities were very consistent with both types of flash holes. I didn't find any difference between the two types of brass I used either. The Boxer primer pockets were Lake City Match and the Berdan pockets were Hirtenberger, albeit milsurp. They were both of excellent quality. Both had the necks turned to fit my match chamber. The load I used over both types of primers was 47.0 grains of W748 over Norma Berdan type primers and Boxer type CCI BR-2 large rifle primers.

As I said, both were very consistent.

These tests were measured over a Chrony in the morning around 7am when the ambient temps were around 15C and the light was about equal each day for more Chrony consistency. My records show velocities ranging from 2786 fps to 2812 fps over the Berdan primers and 2778 fps to 2804 fps over the Boxer primers. That is excellent considering these velocities were recorded on two hundred of each.

My records don't record group size but do record scores on 100 yd HBR CSSA targets which have five score targets and one prep target on each page. The bores were cleaned every 26 rounds and one was a fouling shot taken on the prep target after each cleaning. Each of the score targets had one shot each.

The average scores for both were very close. The Boxer primed loads scored an overall average of 96 over 200 rounds on 40 targets and 97 for the Berdan over the same amount of targets. Very difficult to say one was better than the other and if push came to shove I wouldn't have felt hard done by with either.

Considering the way HBR shooters load on the range with hand tools and precision neck only dies I felt this test was pretty conclusive for me, seeing all of the rounds were fired from the same rifle.

All of the above was witnessed by a two fellows that were twins. Albert Forslund and Bob Forslund. Both had hereditary heart conditions and passed away within two years of each other about ten years ago.

John, I can only surmise that the difference between my tests and those of the Aussies was the type of bullets and powder available to the shooters. I also suspect the cartridge they used was the 303 Brit which has a slightly longer powder column.

You also mentioned the size of the flash holes. The Lake City Match brass had "small" flash holes for which we had a different punch. I really liked that brass. Mind you the Hirtenberger was every bit as good. I had 20 pieces of each sized for the neck of my chamber and none of them cracked or gave any problems over the test. I went on to use the 20 LC cases for a lot more shooting until that barrel needed to be swapped out around 1700 rounds.

The tests with other cartridges were much the same.
 
The Aussies were test 223 (5.56).

I suspect your test showed similar results because of the small Boxer flash hole. Regular brass might have shown the difference.

But the difference would be small.
 
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