Beretta 686 Sporting pattern. 50/50, or 60/40?

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Urbansherpa

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It is tooo cold to pattern my new SP1 Sporting 32" yet, so I have a few Q's.

My buddy has a Beretta Pereneum field gun that he uses for informal clay shooting as well as upland. As there is no mid-bead he simply 'sights' parallel to the rib. He seems to hit most things he points at. I've heard that the field gun throws a 50/50 pattern height, although he is yet to pattern it properly!

My Sporter has a mid-bead and I am used to using the stacked 8 sighting picture. (I do so with my Benelli SN) I realize that using that hold 'lifts' the pattern a few inches higher at 35 yards, or so.
Anyways, what I'm wondering is... Do most 686 Sporters throw a 60/40 pattern when sighting parallel to the rib, or when stacking the beads?

Yes, I will pattern the gun when it gets a bit warmer, but until then I am curious to know if the Sporter model is designed to pattern a bit higher than the field models.

I shot 5 boxes the other day and averaged about 16-18/25. When I shoot my A400 I average about 21 consistently.

Also, I read that the SP1 Sporter is designed to be an all around sporting gun. Is its forte sporting clays, or is it a jack of all trades?

Thanks for answering all!
 
The POI can be changed, either with stock shims or adjustable comb. Most sporting guns, shoot flat or 50/50. and adjust from there. It is another personal thing. I don't mind a gun that shoots a little high for trap. but for sporting I like flat.
In sporting like no other game you will see arcing targets that require compound lead of ahead and below. It is hard for me to get my head around that with a gun the shoots high. your mileage may vary
good luck with your new gun ,, have fun
 
You can't count on anything being the same from one to the other. You can only be certain where it patterns, when you put both guns on paper and see where they are comparatively. You can shoot them at targets and look at the breaks ... does your old gun center the target as opposed to the new gun break tops, bottoms or center when you shoot them the same?
 
As mentioned the POI can be adjuested with stock shims on these models. Pattern testing will tell you where to start. Most coachs prefer a higher than center pattern on a trap gun(65-70%) and a flatter pattern (55-60%) on a skeet or sporting gun. The logic is that when shooting trap your always shooting a rising target and the higher pattern allows to see the target better without lifting your head from the stock. That's why trap guns tend to high monte carlo stocks and high ribs on them.
 
Field, Skeet & Sporters are (theoretically) made to shoot "flat" or 50/50 patterns, trap guns to shoot higher, 60/40 to as much as 80/20 ... and some want even a full pattern high !

In the field, and certainly at Skeet & Sporting, a good number of targets are falling where they are shot rather than rising. A gun that patterns high can actually be a handicap.

Beretta 687EELL makes a valid point ... patterning is the only sure test.

Shooting from a bench, taking your time to line up the beads with a steady trigger pull will tell you whether the gun shoots where it's pointed .... but patterning from a standing position, bringing the gun smoothly to shoulder and pulling the trigger the instant you are on target ( think of the centre of the paper as a gently rising pheasant going away ) will tell you if the gun is pointing where you are looking. Surprise, surprise, they are often not the same thing. A good many right -handed shooters have found that the gun they think fits them like a glove (because they can line the beads up with a firm cheek mount) actually find that on dynamic, rather than static patterning, that they actually shoot a little high and left ... because they really don't get the gun to their face properly. Lower the comb a fraction and add a little cast-off and all of a sudden the gun shoots where they are looking !

And no, there are no "shims" for the Beretta 68 series of O/U's like there are for the 391, A400 etc.
 
My bad I somehow crossed his A-400 with his 686 question. Their are no stock shims on an O/U, adjustable stocks can be had for these models though at an expense. Beretta Boy you do realize of course that a pattern an inch high at 25yrs is 60/40 pattern right whereas at 40yrds same pattern is 50/50. Lyman did interesting testing this back in the 1970's. At a muzzle velocity of 1200 FPS, a #7 1/2 will drop 3.7" in 40yrds.
 
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Maritime Storm said:
... Beretta Boy you do realize of course that a pattern an inch high at 25yrs is 60/40 pattern right whereas at 40yrds same pattern is 50/50...
Click to expand...

Yes, I do realize shot pellets drop rather quickly ... and I've read extensively, Burrard, Churchill, Sell, Roster, Brister, Hill, Hartman, Braun, Lyman & several others.

My comments were in relation to "conventional" patterning, i.e., the percentage of the total shot load within a 30" circle @ 40 yards.

I realize some like their guns to pattern a little higher ... especially Trap shooters. From my own shooting and having shot literally 100's
of pattern sheets, I'll hold with the 50/50 or "flat" pattern for field, Skeet, Sporting & 5-Stand.

The OP's question as it related to his 686 Sporter was should it shoot 50/50 or 60/40. Beretta manufactures their Sporters to shoot "flat" according
to their literature, and I would be surprised to find that it patterned higher when shot from the bench. Individual gun fit (... i.e. does the gun shoot
where the shooter is looking ? ) when the gun is quickly mounted & shot at a stationary target is another matter altogether.

My own 32" DT10 Sporter, which I've been shooting since 2000, did indeed shoot flat right out of the box (which I expected) however, after much
patterning & shooting, I had my gunsmith add more cast-off, shorten the length of pull & change the pitch to get the gun to shoot "where I was pointing
it". By adding cast-off, I didn't need to lower the comb. Mission accomplished. Many "straights" at Skeet & 5-Stand, a few at Trap
(which I don't shoot often enough) 22's - 24's at International Trap (not nearly enough of that either) and for the most part, mid-80's
(to, again, not often enough, mid-90's) at Sporting.

I realize some like a little higher percentage( 60/40 ) for most of their shooting, possibly because they like to "float" their targets a little
above the rib. Trap shooters seem to prefer an even higher ratio ... although I know one very high average ATA 27-yarder who likes his guns
to shoot "flat" as well ! Each to his own ... but most of all, make sure your gun points where you are looking !
 
Urbanshepa:

From Beretta's catalogues/web site:

" Specific Ppoint of Impact: While the models for Olympic Trap, Skeet and Sporting Clays have a common central [i.e. 50/50 ] point of impact, the
models designed for American Trap are characterized by a high point of impact" ( Field models are also manufactured to shoot 50/50 or "flat" )

My 32" DT10 Sporter, purchased in 2000, was from the UK ... has no centre bead. It shoots to a 50/50 or "flat" POI.
And no, I don't miss the centre bead. As you say, just sight "parallel to the rib" .
I agree with what others have said previously .... hard focus on the target ... you don't even notice or for that matter need the bead(s).

I honestly believe the Sporter is a Sporting Clays gun that is easilly adapted to Skeet, 5-Stand, Trap and some field work. Buddy uses his
32" Sporter for waterfowling and I have used mine to shoot pheasants in the field and at simulated driven shoots at a local club, as well as
when gunning live birds for field trials. Something a little lighter & shorter than a 32" Sporter for grouse & woodcock please !

Your scores you shot the other day ... Skeet ? or Trap ? If Skeet, I'd recommend you try moving your hold points out a little further, especially
at 2H, 3, 4, 5 and 6L , and perhaps a little at both 8's as well... that's a lot of barrel to get moving ! If at Trap, have another shooter watch from
directly behind you ... you may need to raise your hold point slightly or perhaps adapt your swing byi speeding it up or otherwise smoothing things out.
(And quit staring at those beads ! ) Have you compared dimensions between your A400 and the 686 to see how they might differ ???

Work on "getting the gun to shoot where you look" ....
 
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Thanks, Beretta Boy. I should have said that my scores the other day were from shooting several rounds of TRAP!

I've actually shot trap for about 25yrs off and on, although not 'seriously' or competitively. Just club shoots.
Also, despite no competitive experience I do know how to shoot, stand, mount, acquire and not to look at the beads. (when I said, "sighting picture" I didn't mean focusing on the beads) I generally hard-focus on the leading edge, not just the whole clay. if I was to look at the beads they would be in a snowman/stacked configuration, though. Was just wondering about the 50/50, or 60/40 issue from a strictly 'mechanical' standpoint. Maybe what I should have said was that if I were to bench rest the gun and line up the beads, would it shoot flat, or slightly high. I know that how the individual fits the gun to a large degree, will decide on where the pattern is thrown. 50/50 is the answer that I wasn't able to find on the Beretta site. Thanks!

I was out yesterday again, and shot (trap) much better, and used the fullest choke I had, IMod. My Beretta was sent back to Italy to get the cast modified (prior to receiving it...I'm a lefty).... Unlike my A400 Xplor, which is just a shim switch.

I appreciate the advise, and I am considering removing both beads. A 12g I had many years ago had NO beads and I seemed to hit grouse well enough! The white front bead on the gun is far too large and distracting anyway.

I'm looking forward to patterning the gun to see if it is shooting where I'm looking (non bench-rested) also.

Not to make this a gun review, but I must say that I do like the -Optima HP- chokes on this 686. Yesterday I totally smoked the ones I hit! Don't think I need to invest in extended tubes. These are fine.

Thanks all
 
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Urbansherpa .... sounds like you're on the right trail ! Glad your scores improved and good luck with your patterning.
I think you'll like those Optima HP's just fine.

I found that the Beretta Optima chokes performed quite well. In measuring, my DT10 has bore diameters of .733" in both barrels, somewhat "overbore" of the older
Berettas with mobil chokes ... but not near as much as the bores of a buddy's 625 Browning. I was a little surprised at the dimensions of the original set of Optima
extended (the colour-coded) choke tubes that came with the gun. The Imp.Cyl coke actually miked .017" (nearly Mod) the Mod. .028 (Imp.Mod.) and the Imp, Mod.
.038" (Full) ... a second five choke Spoorting set I picked up from Beretta at Grand the following year, miked out what they were supposed to. I can only conclude that the original
chokes were "mis-banded" with colour codes at Mechanica del Sarca (the Italian subsidiary of Beretta) where they are made.I did buy some additional Optima
chokes however ... a pair of (purple) "US Skeet" a pair of (orange) "Light Mod. and a single (white) Full. Yeah I know 15 chokes ... but it's worse, I've also got
10 more now with the purchase of a couple of Beretta 391 Parallel Targets ... an RL & an SL ( one for me, one for the wife).

I haven't been shooting quite as much as I used to, however after having put something over 75,000 rounds down the tubes of the DT10, I can say they are a very
robust and reliable gun. I've only had the trigger group out once ... to clean (wasn't necessary) and lube it, and otherwise don't play with it. So far, NO issues with
this gun whatsoever. Not a single part replaced ... no adjustments. I would hope you get the same enjoyment from your 686.

I did find the 32" 686's and 682's to handle a little slower than the DT-10 ( the DT11 also feels a little slower to me ) so that's possibly a plus for a Trap shooter. If you're
shooting at Hamilton GC, there's a ton of guys there to help if your having trouble. I took the large bead off my DT10 as well and replaced it with a small green fibre optic
one (primarily to fill the hole) At best, the bright green bead will shows up against a well-treed background when shooting Sporting Clays, otherwise I don't notice it all.

Head down - follow through - good shooting !
 
Thanks again. Like I said, I will stick with the original chokes as they do seem to work well. Sounds like you have your own little 'Beretta Gallery'! I was at the Manhattan Beretta Gallery last year. That was quite a treat. The gun room upstairs had million$ worth.
 
No sweat ...glad you're getting better results. I found I was getting great breaks on even some of the long International bunker targets with
24 gram loads using the Imp.Mod Optima chokes. See no reason to try the aftermarket stuff. The Beretta Galleries do have some pretty choice
stuff. Sometimes regret I wasn't born with that silver spoon .... Oh, well ... maybe an SO5 one day !
 
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