Beretta Extrema2's shooting to the left.

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LowKey

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I have one that shoots to the left and down. In order to eliminate all variables, I shot the gun on the bench using several loads, chokes and shot.

Am I the problem in this scenario???? NO!! Every other gun I ran through the test was dead on. I even went a step further and had other shooters (who have shot perfect skeet games) fire the X2 off the bench. Left 99% of the time.

I sent the gun to a gunsmith/beretta dealer. He replaced the barrel and said "let me know if this fixes the issue".

Now here's where I throw the wrench in the gears. The gun fires 2 3/4 target loads beautifully! Waterfowl loads, no such luck. WTF?????????? Is it the overbore. Again the human factor has been virtually eliminated.

I talked to the rep about my problem at Stoeger Canada. He was very dismissive when talking about my problem. He insisted it was me and said he fired 40 other guns sent in by useres who all claimed the same thing (shooting left). Get this, the rep patterned each gun using a 2 3/4 target load..... Again, the gun shoots them perfect. Im guessing the factory does the same thing before releasing the gun.

I explained to him that my gun shoots the light loads perfectly. I also mentioned that he's not covering all variables by simply shooting a load that the gun wasnt even intended for. Well did I ever get a lesson in "cover your ass 101" !!!!! Quote:

"Given that heavier loads cause heaver recoil it is impossible to get perfect results unless the gun is strapped down on the bench."

"If the barrel is straight and it shoot the field load straight, it fire's all loads straight and you’re simply not absorbing the recoil properly or you have shooters flinch."

My responses to his point were quickly interrupted with denial. It was like I asked a tobacco company if there product was addictive..

Honestly, I think I just flushed $2000.00 down the toilet....

I posted this as a warning. If you pattern your extrema2 and it shoots left chances are it's not you. I have done some research. This appears to be a global problem! I even contacted Beretta USA. The support guy talked to me as if my gun was a one in a million issue, yet he was well versed in feeding me the same "cover your ass" BS I got from the Stoeger rep. Conspiracy theory?? It's so retarded I cant help but smile.

FYI: I procure major commodities for a living. I deal with the purchasing cycle on a much higher level. This rat is an easy one to smell. Hell, even my $150 used 835 and 1920 auto 5 have perfect POA.

Caveat emptor
 
I have shot 3" turkey loads off the bench and believe me it was a memorable experience that I won't soon forget. Is there any possibility at all that you are flinching or changing your cheek weld?

If your gun shoots straight with 2-3/4" shells, it cannot be a barrel regulation problem. The gun shoots where you are putting the sights. Can you give us an idea how far left/down and at what distance?

What does that leave? Does firing the shotgun somehow change the point of aim? E.g. Is there some sort of flex in the gun with heavy loads, is the gas system somehow pushing the shotgun towards the left? Really grasping at straws here.

Have you tried posting over at shotgunworld.com?
 
With the exception of slug guns I don't pattern from the bench. Have you tried it on a patterning board, shooting standing up?
 
I'm thinking that a different POI is probably unavoidable when comparing 2 3/4 vs 3" or 3 1/2" shells ... with a heavier shot load and the same bore diameter the column of shot would be longer - the effect of "choking" a longer column of shot must have some effect on barrel harmonics. Similarly launching the same weight loads but at different velocity would have some effect on harmonics.

I guess when you consider the thinness of a 12 gauge tube, it's length and the fact that we are expecting the tube to "impose" a pattern through restriction on the varying shot loads at different velocities... it would be pretty amazing if they do shoot different cartridges to the same POI....

my 2 cents fwiw

We might all need to find the load we like and somehow "regulate" the gun to that load

PS - anyone who asserts that "If the barrel is straight and it shoot the field load straight, it fire's all loads straight" ... might not have the greatest insight into ballistics
 
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MauserMike said:
I have shot 3" turkey loads off the bench and believe me it was a memorable experience that I won't soon forget. Is there any possibility at all that you are flinching or changing your cheek weld?


"Am I the problem in this scenario???? NO!! Every other gun I ran through the test was dead on. I even went a step further and had other shooters (who have shot perfect skeet games) fire the X2 off the bench. Left 99% of the time."

If your gun shoots straight with 2-3/4" shells, it cannot be a barrel regulation problem. The gun shoots where you are putting the sights. Can you give us an idea how far left/down and at what distance?

6-8" Left 2-3" low at 20yrds

Have you tried posting over at shotgunworld.com?

No
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AP said:
I'm thinking that a different POI is probably unavoidable when comparing 2 3/4 vs 3" or 3 1/2" shells ... with a heavier shot load and the same bore diameter the column of shot would be longer - the effect of "choking" a longer column of shot must have some effect on barrel harmonics. Similarly launching the same weight loads but at different velocity would have some effect on harmonics.

I guess when you consider the thinness of a 12 gauge tube, it's length and the fact that we are expecting the tube to "impose" a pattern through restriction on the varying shot loads at different velocities... it would be pretty amazing if they do shoot different cartridges to the same POI....

my 2 cents fwiw

We might all need to find the load we like and somehow "regulate" the gun to that load

PS - anyone who asserts that "If the barrel is straight and it shoot the field load straight, it fire's all loads straight" ... might not have the greatest insight into ballistics
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FINALLY! A worthy response. Your theory makes perfect sense. Could it be that Beretta trimmed too much off the barrel for the sake of weight loss? Therefore, causing persuading harmonics??

Thanks again. Very refreshing.

Any other thoughts as to how heavier loads change the physics of a gun when being fired?
 
Claybuster said:
With the exception of slug guns I don't pattern from the bench. Have you tried it on a patterning board, shooting standing up?
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Yes. I usually stand when patterning. Gun shot to the left.

Again, I wish to focus this topic more on why a straight barrel shoots left with heavier loads. Is it plausible? Absolutely.
 
LowKey said:
Yes. I usually stand when patterning. Gun shot to the left.

Again, I wish to focus this topic more on why a straight barrel shoots left with heavier loads. Is it plausible? Absolutely.
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It's probably that the gun doesn't fit you right.
 
Win/64 said:
It's probably that the gun doesn't fit you right.
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:runaway: OOOOOOKKKKKKKK TIME OUT!!!!

Lets move away from the human factor here. This variable has been covered.

lol

"Now here's where I throw the wrench in the gears. The gun fires 2 3/4 target loads beautifully! Waterfowl loads, no such luck. WTF?????????? Is it the overbore. Again the human factor has been virtually eliminated. "
 
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LowKey said:
FINALLY! A worthy response. Your theory makes perfect sense. Could it be that Beretta trimmed too much off the barrel for the sake of weight loss? Therefore, causing persuading harmonics??

Thanks again. Very refreshing.

Any other thoughts as to how heavier loads change the physics of a gun when being fired?
Click to expand...

Shotguns specifically can be very "sensitive" in various ways/situations.......I realize that yours shot/shoot 2 3/4in loads straight to POA....having said that, personally, I would experiment a bit further by alternating the shims provided and again trying first 2 3/4 and subsequently 3 inch loads.

The thought is if the issue you are encountering is inherent to the model then perhaps it may also be possible to re-adjust both load types to acceptable POI via some tweaks to the stock......assuming you've validated that already.
 
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I've never considered barrel harmonics important in scatter gun shooting, but live and learn as they say. Something is causing your gun to shoot left, and if it were a stock-fit problem I would think the error would be observed in ammo across the board, not just with full powered loads. I think you have three options short of dumping the gun, none of which are going to be a perfect solution.

Option #1 is two buy a broad selection of shells suitable for pass shooting, and see if any of them shoot to point of aim. If you find one that works, stick to that particular load if possible.

Option #2: move the bead to the left side of the rib, the amount can be determined by a simple formula based on the barrel length an the amount of error. Rotating the barrel would be a nice solution, and would address the elevation problem as well, but shotgun barrels are not normally threaded. Don't be concerned with the height of the bead until you've had the opportunity to pattern the gun at normal pass shooting ranges. At the short range you were shooting, it would not be uncommon to observe a difference in elevation between loads that might have 300-400 fps variation in velocity.

Option number 3 is to install an optical sight, perhaps a Trijicon ACOG, which would allow you to have a precise sight setting for each load, but would require a period of adjustment to get used to.
 
LowKey said:
:runaway: OOOOOOKKKKKKKK TIME OUT!!!!

Lets move away from the human factor here. This variable has been covered.

lol

"Now here's where I throw the wrench in the gears. The gun fires 2 3/4 target loads beautifully! Waterfowl loads, no such luck. WTF?????????? Is it the overbore. Again the human factor has been virtually eliminated. "
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I actually think that the human factor is the most probable, but since you do not want to go there I will not:D Since someone else mentioned harmonics of the barrel, I will not go there as well. I am going to question something else. It is my understanding that with the beretta gas system and the use of target loads, very little gas is bled off to work the action. With heavier loads a spring is overcome and more gas is bled off toward the muzzle out of several vents and then the excess gets blown out the vents in the forstock? The gas comming out of those forward vents must be really something to overcome that spring? Since the gas is directed forward and it is not certain that all vents, vent gas equally, could it have a significant force to move the poi? That is how they steer rockets?
 
Geez - two for two in my original post and still no respect

1. Flex = harmonics
2. Gas system = rocketry, exactly what I was getting at

Oh - and still the most probable IMO -the flinch :owned:

Unfortunately the poster has heard the answer he wants to hear. Take the gun back and get something that works for you. I don't blame you for being unhappy on a $2000 investment.
 
MauserMike said:
Geez - two for two in my original post and still no respect

1. Flex = harmonics
2. Gas system = rocketry, exactly what I was getting at

Oh - and still the most probable IMO -the flinch :owned:

Unfortunately the poster has heard the answer he wants to hear. Take the gun back and get something that works for you. I don't blame you for being unhappy on a $2000 investment.
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I respect you;)

I supect that the problem is that POS beretta. He obviously got a lemon and since no joy from Stoeger, I feel sorry for him and would be happy to take that POS off his hands so he could recover at least 40% of his investment.:D

I supect that the problem is in benching the gun with heavy loads and I am even more surprised that he got a couple of 25 straight skeet shooters to help him in his task:dancingbanana:
 
I feel sympathy with this problem as I was benching left with the full choke barrel on my Citori. The problem has gone away since I started testing off-hand patterns as well as being more careful with my stance and visualization procedure. In fact, I replicated this again today. I had done 5 patterns off hand with the same result and today I tested numbers 6, 7 and 8. The significant thing for me in all this is that I am becoming increasingly convinced that I will shoot left if I am not careful with my position and my visualization procedure. In fact, I got some evidence this is true today when pattern number 6 had a left bias and I felt I was a bit off balance and awkward in my hold before I went to check the pattern. I think I tend to hold the shotgun differently when I get careless, or don't follow my procedures and so I aim a bit more to the left. It might be interesting to go back and test the bench again sometime, even though it's the standing stuff that matters. Hope things work out. fred
 
If some Extrema's are able to shoot to the same POI with varying loads (2 3/4 - 3 1/2 inches) you may want to see if your forestock is showing signs of binding/interference either around the barrel or the recoil spring/magazine tube... same for the butt stock being secure against the heavy loads.

I wonder if it is possible that now we are seeing such a broad range of load capability in a single shotgun that the techniques of free floating (or other "stocking up" approaches eg slight stock pressure points) used for rifles and particularly rifles with two piece stocks should be applied??


Personally I just want an affordable 2 3/4 load that will bring down ducks the way my modified 1100 used to do with lead shot....


(and oh yeah ... there is always "operator error" but if the only answer anyone got on this site when they go looking for an answer was "operator error" ...it would be a pretty boring web site...no?)
 
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Trigun said:
I guess the LOP is either too long or not fit enough, therefore the muzzle was push aside when heavier loads.

Trigun
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Sorry... but the original poster has already ruled out gun fit as the problem. :rolleyes: Or it could be that steel shoots different than lead.
 
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