First off, Happy Canada Day to all! I'm looking for some KNOWLEDGEABLE input on the above bullet in a Winchester Mod.100 or at least input on the bullet itself. A little background...... I've been reloading for quite a number of years, but there's always something new to learn. I've been burning bullets and powder trying to find a good deer load for this rifle. I've seen too much wasted meat and blood spatter from heavier bullets and I lean toward 150-165 gr. for deer so that's what I've been concentrating on. Now maybe I'm a too picky, but I think a good hunting rifle with the correct load should be capable of printing AT LEAST a 1-1/4" group at 100 yds. I'm using the Lyman reloading manual 49th. edition as my main source of data, but I also check powder and bullet manufacturers for their reload data to see if recommended powder/bullet data matches my Lyman book. Thus far, the best group I've got was with the 155 gr. Berger and 42 gr. IMR4895 (3 rnd. group 1-3/8"). I've reloaded a bunch more with 43.5 and 44.5 gr. (respectively) to stay under max load and they'll come to the range to see what they do. These Berger's state on the box "Excellent for Target, Recommended for Game Hunting". My buddy, who's been reloading even longer than I, thinks match bullets are match bullets and hunting bullets are hunting bullets and never the twain shall meet. I think that if the manufacturer states that it's good for game, they know what they're talking about (so there!). My question is have any of you guys used this bullet on game? If so, how did they perform? I asked a question in an earlier post about pet loads for the Mod.100 but didn't get too much input. Should these loads do well, I'll post results and pics after the range day. Thanks for looking.
Berger 155 gr. .308 in a Winchester Mod.100
- Thread starter LawrenceN
- Start date
"I've seen too much wasted meat and blood spatter from heavier bullets "
308 is a lot more power than required for deer. I have see a lot of blown up good meat from 308s.
The solution (with a 308) is to move to a heavier bullet. It has less velocity and will be less violent.
I switched to 180 gr bullets and that way have a single load for both deer and moose.
I have no experience with Bergers for hunting. I do load their 155 target bullet. If you want to load a Berger for hunting, why not load a heavier, less explosive bullet?
308 is a lot more power than required for deer. I have see a lot of blown up good meat from 308s.
The solution (with a 308) is to move to a heavier bullet. It has less velocity and will be less violent.
I switched to 180 gr bullets and that way have a single load for both deer and moose.
I have no experience with Bergers for hunting. I do load their 155 target bullet. If you want to load a Berger for hunting, why not load a heavier, less explosive bullet?
Thanks for the input Ganderite. My buddy nailed a deer with a 180 gr. bullet out of his .303 and as I'd mentioned, there was too much waste by the time we cut out all the bloody jelly and the internals. I've had good success in the past with 150-165 gr. if they're not loaded too hot and even did a nice take-down of 6 pt. buck with a 123 gr. bullet out of my SKS. I suppose I could use a heavier bullet loaded down but you and I know that a lot depends on the bullet and it's expansion and jacket retention as to the amount of damage it'll do. That's why I was asking about the Bergers specifically. I've loaded 165 Nosler Accubond, 165 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip, 150 gr. Hornady Interlocks, all with different powders in an attempt to find a load that my Mod.100 liked. Thus far, the best groups were with the 155 Bergers though I haven't tried heavier bullets out it. Moose hunting isn't in my cards in the forseeable future. Where we hunt (Haliburton/Minden) there aren't a lot of moose, but if the opportunity presents itself, I have a Ruger Mod.77 heavy barrel that'll print 3/4" groups with my 180 gr. handloads and that would be my "go-to" for moose hunting.
The appropriate cliber for a deer hunted at 100 yrd or less is a 30-30 or SKS round.
303 and 308 are overkill, and will make a mess. My suggestion stands. A heavier bullet will be less destructive.
A 155 will have more velocity. That is what blows up meat.
303 and 308 are overkill, and will make a mess. My suggestion stands. A heavier bullet will be less destructive.
A 155 will have more velocity. That is what blows up meat.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Personally I like the 150-165 range in the 308. Personally I would use a well constructed bullet rather than a simple cup and core or garden variety cheapo bullets. This prevents over-expansion which limits the trauma to the delicious meaty bits. Another approach that I've long favoured is to not shoot them through the shoulders or other bones to reduce bone fragments and meat damage.
Exactly my thinking! I always load quality bullets, but at the end of the day I stay with a good powder/bullet combo that gives me the accuracy I wish. For instance, I have a sporterized No.4 Lee Enfield and I'm getting 1/2" groups at 100 yds. with Hornady 150 gr. Interlocks on top of 43 gr. of Varget. It's a nice deer load with good knock-down power. Probably like yourself, I always try for a heart shot. I never understood the fixation on shoulder shots favoured by so many hunters for exactly the same reason you mention.
I would find a load with a good 150gr prohunter, interlock, ballistic tip. The bergers are likely fine but the high bc shape can be more difficult to get to shoot, have longer oals/ deeper seating taking up powder space and are thinner jacket than I would like for a close in deer bullet. No advantage for your situation. A situation that is pretty straight forward.
The nosler 165 grain accubond bullet was quite accurate with varget powder in our 1961 winchester model 100 in 308 win.
Number 2 nephew took the rifle out to alberta with him in 2014 and is happily putting a dent in the whitetail and mullie population with it to my knowledge.
By quite accurate I mean a 3-shot 100 yd group that was consistently less than 1" shot sitting from sandbags.
Considering that the winchester model 100 was not known for its great accuracy our 100 was a pretty good one.
One of the first things we noticed about the gun when we bought it was that it hadn't been shot much and had been meticulously cared for.
Number 2 nephew took the rifle out to alberta with him in 2014 and is happily putting a dent in the whitetail and mullie population with it to my knowledge.
By quite accurate I mean a 3-shot 100 yd group that was consistently less than 1" shot sitting from sandbags.
Considering that the winchester model 100 was not known for its great accuracy our 100 was a pretty good one.
One of the first things we noticed about the gun when we bought it was that it hadn't been shot much and had been meticulously cared for.
I have a Win 100 and I have had good success using 165 Nosler partions and Speer Rd nose. As one fella mentioned try not to shoot the deer through the shoulders. Tuck your shots just in behind through the both lungs. Far less meat damage and they usually either just flop over within a few feet or never make it more than 50yds depending on the deer. I have zero experience with the bullet you mentioned, but with Nosler and Speer in the 165 gr. I have plenty. That M-100 wasn't made to drive tacks off sand bags at a range if you can get 1.5 to 2" groups with a load from it, call it good and head out deer hunting as that's what the gun was made for. Hunted with many fellas that consider fine accuracy hitting a 8" pie plate 3 times off sand bags at 100 yds. as more than good to go.
I have picked many Remington Core Loket bullets from deer and they are an impressive performing bullet. Penetrate well and mushroom beautifully. I have never seen any in bulk to reload however. The most meat damage I have had on a deer was from a 95 gr. Nosler partition out of a .243. Entered in behind the L shoulder and exited through the R shoulder. A real mess, had a lot of waste. Have shot several deer in recent years with the 375 H&H using 260 gr. partions, they all fell over dead and you can literally eat right up to the entrance and exit holes, very minimal waste. My experiences anyways.
I have picked many Remington Core Loket bullets from deer and they are an impressive performing bullet. Penetrate well and mushroom beautifully. I have never seen any in bulk to reload however. The most meat damage I have had on a deer was from a 95 gr. Nosler partition out of a .243. Entered in behind the L shoulder and exited through the R shoulder. A real mess, had a lot of waste. Have shot several deer in recent years with the 375 H&H using 260 gr. partions, they all fell over dead and you can literally eat right up to the entrance and exit holes, very minimal waste. My experiences anyways.
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The core-lokts are great as long as you don't push them too fast.
For 30-30 win, 35 rem, 45-70 they can't be beat.
You're wasting your money paying the big bucks for premium bullets to operate in the 2500 fps or less velocity range.
I remember seeing 30 cal core-lokts sold in bulk but not for a long time.
For 30-30 win, 35 rem, 45-70 they can't be beat.
You're wasting your money paying the big bucks for premium bullets to operate in the 2500 fps or less velocity range.
I remember seeing 30 cal core-lokts sold in bulk but not for a long time.
Thanks to all for your input. I've found a load that I feel is satisfactory for my upcoming deer season. As I'd mentioned earlier, I tried the Nosler Accubond and Ballistic Tip bullets with various powders and none of them gave me the accuracy I wanted. Some time ago, a buddy picked up an 8lb. keg of Accurate 2495 and my brother and I bought 2 lbs. each from him. I found loading specs on the Accurate web site and worked up some trial loads. Here's the result of the last trip to the range. The 155 gr. Berger bullets on top of 43.5 gr. IMR 4895 gave me a 1-3/8" grp. at 100 yds. The Hornady 150 gr. (#3031) on top of 44.5 Accurate 2495 produced a 1" grp. at 100 yds. I'll try tweaking them a little by experimenting with bullet seating depth and maybe .5 gr. powder up and/or down, but it's nice to finally have a load that I can confidently take out into the field. Once again, to you all, your comments and observations are appreciated. I'd not mentioned it earlier, but I'm not a newbie to hunting. I've been hunting in Ontario for close to 40 yrs. and after many discussions with fellow hunters on this site and other venues, I've found that personal experiences and preferences vary greatly. It's a treat to share information and opinions and I still find myself learning a lot from the experiences of fellow hunters and shooters.
303EppsFan
CGN Regular
- Location
- Almonte,Ontario
Sound advice. And based on the Model 100 I had I would have been ecstatic with an 1 3/8" group. It wouldn't go under 2" no matter what load I put in it and the zero wandered to boot!
Use whatever weight shoots well in your gun.......my Win 100 hated any bullet over 165gr ......shoot your deer in the lungs or neck if you wish........hinds and fronts preserved........plan "B" heavier jacketed bullets.......Partitions.Less meat loss with my .338 Win Mag than a .270 Harold
Thanks guys. Like I mentioned, I've been shooting for over 50 yrs. and hunting for damned near as long. It's funny how some of what I (personally) consider unsound advice perpetuates. One, which was mentioned earlier, is the shoulder shot on deer. WHY????? Because "that's what we've always done"? Sure, you'll drop it since it's unable to run or walk, but you stand to ruin a lot of good meat. I was taught that the heart/lung shot was the best. Sure, maybe it won't drop dead in its tracks, but it's a done deal. I've never had to walk more than 30-40 yds. to end up coming upon a dead deer after that shot, and I've nailed a lot of them. The other myth is "take a deep breath and exhale half way, then pull the trigger". I've seen that taught on TV programs and shooting videos and had that repeated to me. In my years, I've talked to competition shooters (which I used to be), target shooters, fellow hunters, and other soldiers about breath control. I was taught take a deep breath, hold it, and while you are slowly exhaling, line up your sights. When you're fully exhaled and relaxed, on your target, then take the shot. I worked with a Polish guy who used to shoot biathalon for Poland. Not only did they use that breathing technique, but they were even taught to shoot between the heartbeats! I figure it's my responsibility as an ethical hunter to make sure I have a good proven load for my rifle, I know how to take a good shot, and I owe it to the animal to give it as quick and clean a death as I can. Like any one who's hunted a lot, how many of you guys have come across a deer carcass that was left to die from a bad shot from a hunter who either lost the tracks in the dark, or just didn't bother to track his badly shot game. Shameful!
- Location
- NFA country
Did you decide for or against the 155 grain Berger bullet?
I hear the Berger bullets were pretty frangible.
165 grain Nosler Partition or Accubond through the 'boiler room' (heat/lungs area) is the way to go.
Factory ammo is available featuring the above bullets for those who don't hand load.
The above bullets will penetrate and expand and destroy the vitals not blow apart within an inch or two of the skin leaving big wounds and wounded deer that will die a painful death from infection.
I hear the Berger bullets were pretty frangible.
165 grain Nosler Partition or Accubond through the 'boiler room' (heat/lungs area) is the way to go.
Factory ammo is available featuring the above bullets for those who don't hand load.
The above bullets will penetrate and expand and destroy the vitals not blow apart within an inch or two of the skin leaving big wounds and wounded deer that will die a painful death from infection.
Thank you. I still haven't heard from anyone who actually used the Bergers, but I live in hope. I tried the Nosler 150gr. Accubond and 165gr. Ballistic Tip and I couldn't find a bullet/powder combo that gave me decent groups. Nosler Partition aren't too common hereabouts so I haven't tried them, but should I come across a box, I will try them out. I don't care how good the quality of a bullet is since if it won't give a good group in a particular firearm, I don't think it's worth a bucket of warm spit. As to a final decision regarding a hunting load, I'd love to see what the Bergers will do, but I'm leaning toward the Hornady 150gr. (#3031) FBSP. I've had good kills from Hornady in the past. Mind you, out of my Ruger M77, the 165gr. Sierra Game King on top of H380 knocks 'em down pretty good and gives me sub MOA groups so I'll use that out to 300 yds. if I had a shot like that. I shoot up at CFB Borden and we get the long range every month or two for those who really want to stretch their legs.
was shooting the Canadian Nationals F class with a Brit who was shooting 155.5 Bergers and lots of H 4895 his speed was 3150 fps some hot load wouldn't want to shoot his load in a model 100 winchester
Oh, for sure not! Since the Berger box is manufacturer marked "recommended for hunting", I wanted to know if anyone had actually used them and could let me know the result. If I had my hands on ballistic gel, I could do my own expansion, jacket retention, penetration tests, etc. but nothing beats "hand-on" experience and that's what I was hoping for. I've heard good things about the Berger match bullets but I'm long away from competition shooting now. My primary concern is a good clean kill shot if the hunting gods allow me one this year.
