Berger bullet failures?

The reason for comparing two hunting bullets was mostly because of the .325 and .500 numbers Angus picked, plus the close range. The .505 BC of a 180 30 cal just happened to be an example I'm up on. Could have went with the .277 140 Accubond versus some of the sorry ass .270s out there, but it didn't fit the short range example as well. It's a favorite of mine in the 270 Weatherby trotting along at close to 3400.

I've done a fair amount with the Bergers; well over 100 animals with the 7-300 w 180 grain VLD this year. They are quite spectacular killers. You don't need them for a lot of things, and don't want them for others but it's one of the fastest killing bullets I've used. Vicious doesn't even begin to describe it.
 
Dogleg knows bullets better than anyone I’ve ever met or will, can’t argue with you and agree if it’s free, take it. I did however go too extreme on my numbers in the argument, a better example would be a 180gr Partition at .474 vs a Berger 185 VLD Hunting at .558 G1. I wouldn’t trade those bullets in a client’s chamber for a thousand bucks if I have to get the animal out of some forsaken crevice. :d And functionally the two will fly the same to distances most shouldn’t be shooting- present company excluded of course.
 
Dogleg said:
The reason for comparing two hunting bullets was mostly because of the .325 and .500 numbers Angus picked, plus the close range. The .505 BC of a 180 30 cal just happened to be an example I'm up on. Could have went with the .277 140 Accubond versus some of the sorry ass .270s out there, but it didn't fit the short range example as well. It's a favorite of mine in the 270 Weatherby trotting along at close to 3400.

I've done a fair amount with the Bergers; well over 100 animals with the 7-300 w 180 grain VLD this year. They are quite spectacular killers. You don't need them for a lot of things, and don't want them for others but it's one of the fastest killing bullets I've used. Vicious doesn't even begin to describe it.
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I bet you used them within there design parameters aka long range. Or maybe not lol. I get bullets like bergers and others for long range shooting. What I dont get is buddy loading them for his 7mm mag to hunt moose and deer at normal hunting ranges. For me that's 300 and under. Those types of bullets are a handicap here. You dont always get a perfect broadside shot.
 
prairie lover said:
I bet you used them within there design parameters aka long range. Or maybe not lol. I get bullets like bergers and others for long range shooting. What I dont get is buddy loading them for his 7mm mag to hunt moose and deer at normal hunting ranges. For me that's 300 and under. Those types of bullets are a handicap here. You dont always get a perfect broadside shot.
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For what is common hunting distances there are plenty of great choices that combine a certain amount of fragmentation and reasonable chance of holding some base together for penetration at ranges where the velocities are still high enough for good results. It's a good compromise for most of the people most of the time. The Bergers shine when the time for compromise is over and you want to make the biggest wound channels possible with what velocity you have left. Speciality use in other words.

Having said that; I formulated a plan to stress the VLDs to the limit with shoulder shots and the closest of ranges. Believe me; you don't want to get shot with one of those things unless shuffling off this mortal coil in a hurry is on your list of things to do. I'll be keeping the details to myself though, it's not worth the grief on a forum.
 
If someone is smart enough to dial for long shot with their long range bullet, they are probably smart enough to pre-dial for a short range shot with a different bullet. Dual loading is a thing.
 
Dogleg said:
If someone is smart enough to dial for long shot with their long range bullet, they are probably smart enough to pre-dial for a short range shot with a different bullet. Dual loading is a thing.
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I believe this is an often overlooked possibility. At least in my circle of friends it is, I'll continue to load more controlled expansion bullets and make due with my personal limit of 400 yards. Of course I don't play with turrets other than at the range.
 
My rule of thumb is if you are using conventional bullet designs, lean towards heavy for calibre bullets. So, for .28 cal, I'd look at 168 gr and up. For 30 cal, I'd look at 180 and up, etc.
 
1899 said:
Yeah, my favorite episode of that show was when Chris Beck gut shot a bull elk, but he didn't go anywhere because the shot was from so far that he didn't know which way to run. She then shot the bull in the ass and her husband yells "right in the shoulder!". The bull walked a short way and laid down under a tree. Chris and Bob then snuck up to it and killed it from close range as the bull jumped up to run away. I wonder how much footage stays on the editing room floor.

This is epic too:
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Videos like that make me sad.
 
rkm456 said:
Videos like that make me sad.
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Hunting videos are pretty much a bad idea from the standpoint of promoting the sport in a positive light. This one isn't particularly egregious, but some of the worst examples are botched close range shots where a hunter shoots poorly, handles his rifle badly, then someone else has to clean up the mess. In hunting, animals are sometimes wounded, and sometimes wounded animals are not recovered. We wish it didn't happen, but it does. The person shooting from long range has time to wait for perfect presentation on a stationary animal, then make a deliberate, accurate, shot. A person who hunts in heavy cover must often make a snap shot on a moving target. This type of shooting usually occurs with the worst presentation possible, on a moving target. From directly behind, with even perfect placement, it might require 18"-24" of penetration for the bullet to get the job done. Many high velocity game bullets penetrate only a foot to 18". Close range shooting doesn't mitigate the problem of wounded game to any great degree, what mitigates the problem of wounded game is realistic practice and practice under realistic conditions is a rare thing. Everyone seems to be concerned with shooting groups from the bench that measure fractions of an inch at 100 yards, which while an interesting and enjoyable activity, has nothing to do with hitting, and killing game at 12 yards or at 1200.
 
I have shot a lot of game with 7mm caliber bullets. I would never use Bergers as an all round hunting bullet. Way too explosive at close range.

If you want a high B.C. bullet that will hold together at close range I would suggest you try try the Hornady 162 ELDX B.C. 630, 175 ELDX, B.C. .689, or the Barnes 168 grain LRX B.C. 550. All work well at long or short range though the Hornady's have the edge over 600 yards in something like a 7 Rum, 28 Nosler.
 
Boomer said:
Hunting videos are pretty much a bad idea from the standpoint of promoting the sport in a positive light. This one isn't particularly egregious
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"You hit him... I think... Keep shooting." is pretty egregious.

I hunt, and I know very well that things often don't go as planned when you're afield, but you owe it to your game to know you and your equipment's effective range before loosing an arrow or taking a shot and work within those parameters. There's a difference between "I froze up and blew the shot." and "Well, I guess we'll see if this works." Just my opinion of course.
 
Dean2 said:
I have shot a lot of game with 7mm caliber bullets. I would never use Bergers as an all round hunting bullet. Way too explosive at close range.

If you want a high B.C. bullet that will hold together at close range I would suggest you try try the Hornady 162 ELDX B.C. 630, 175 ELDX, B.C. .689, or the Barnes 168 grain LRX B.C. 550. All work well at long or short range though the Hornady's have the edge over 600 yards in something like a 7 Rum, 28 Nosler.
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How can you say you'd never use Bergers , "To Explosive"? Hard to recommend something you've never tried. Have you shot animals with the ELD-X line? I have not so I would like to know how they work. From reading on other forums it sounds like the ELD-X can be very explosive up close. I thought this thread was for people to post up BERGER BULLET FAILURES? I see most people saying not to use them but they have no experience with Berger bullets. As I posted earlier I have never had a Berger bullet failure. Make sure the hollow point is open and clear of debris to ensure expansion and go shoot. I have shot animals from as close as 30 yds with the farthest deer at 734 yds. Various calibers and bullet weights and none have failed. It is almost impossible for a bullet to perform near and far. I think we are asking for the impossible. Hard to make a bullet that will hold together at 20 yds but still expand at 1000 yds.
 
I shot a white tail buck quite a few years ago, he was coming right towards me on an open field. At about 100yds I drilled him from the front. Dropped dead in it’s tracks. Was shooting a 7rem mag, 140gr Berger, sure the deer died right there, but there were bullet fragments everywhere. I do not recall finding any piece of bullet worth calling the bullet.

So was it a Berger fail? No. Was it a bullet design/use fail? I think so. I should’ve/could’ve used a better suited bullet if I wanted to put a recovered bullet on the shelf.
 
I have shot quite a few animals with Berger Bullets; Bear, Coyote and a few deer. Have used them in a 308 and various 7mms from RUM to 7 -08, 7 Rem Mag and 7x57. That is how I decided they expand too much at close range. I agree that getting a bullet to expand properly close and far is very difficult. Nosler Partitions do that much better than most but they have a lower B.C.. My current go to bullets are Barnes 168 LRX and Hornady ELDX or BTSP 162 grain. I have shot moose, elk, deer, bear and antelope with these bullets at ranges from 50 yards to 700 yards. Excellent performance in all cases. Good penetration, quick kills and very few recovered bullets due to complete pass through, which leaves a much better blood trail in case you ever need one. Luckily, last 12 years, haven't needed to track anything more than 20 yards.
 
Shot my first animal with a Berger this fall. Moose @ 125 yards with my 280 Ackley / 195gr Berger EOL (2675 fps MV). 39% weight retention. Bullet impacted behind the shoulder, through the lungs and was recovered on far side shoulder meat.

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A couple weeks prior, I shot a bull elk with my 338-06 and the Hornady 230gr ELDX (2515 fps) at 275 yards. Impact speed approx 2150 fps. That ELDX punched through the shoulder blade and never entered the chest cavity. Bullet was recovered between two ribs on entry. A couple shots behind the shoulder did a better job

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I'm not a big fan of this : I'll probably be going back to Barnes or Accubonds for most of my big game hunting

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That chunk of lead in Tod’s hamburger is what got me to try mono bullets after a similar experience. 3deer so far with mono’s, I would like to try an accubond type bullet if the bonding process will keep the lead from my meat.
 
I pulled 2x 160 grain accubonds out of the goat I shot this year and both retained about 70% of their weight. I think the only way to guarantee no lead in your meat is to not put any in there in the first place ie mono bullets.
 
I have shot a pile of game with Burger bullets, and not one failed. Everything, and I mean everything I hit died. And died right there. I have not witnessed any other bullet manufacture fail either, but that being said, I have lost a few game animals over the years, that I had thought at the time I hit well. So could those other manufactures bullet have failed? I sopos yes. But I never found the animal to find out. Sad as it is, most of the time that's the way it is.
Now for those of you that call a Berger fail at close range, because the animal died, but you did not like the destruction, well the Berger did just as advertised, and it dumped all its energy into it. If you don't like that it is fine, but saying it failed is plain wrong.
I have seen a few Barnes bullets from other people that look to have failed to expand, but I did not see where they hit them, how fast they were going, or at what distance the game was shot at.
Most I have talked to that say Bergers are junk are people that have not used them.
I personally would rather a animal dies, exactly where I shoot it, and potentially loose a bit of meat, than chase them and maybe loose them.
And most people if they are being honest that have done a fair amount of hunting have lost a animal. All I can say is it has never happend with a Berger.
 
250 gr TTSX from my .375 Ruger. Bull moose at 355 yards, through the onside shoulder bone knuckle, jelloed the lungs, through the ribs on the far side and the bullet was recovered against the hide. Two steps and he fell over. That’s why I use Barnes over Berger.

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