Berger VLD Hunting, what do they do? Do you like them?

Fox

Fox

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I am getting 300 Berger VLD for the 243, they are before they split them into Hunting and Match, but they say hunting on the box.

Are these good for deer?
 
I've only killed two deer with the VLDs, so a small sample size. Took both deer with 185gr VLDs in a 300 win mag. On the bottom end of book load data apx 2700fps. First deer was a small 4x4 @ 50m. First shot deer had zero reaction so I put another one in it. Deer ran about 10m into the brush and died. I knew they were good hits when the deer ran off and the tree behind it looked like it had been painted red. Both shots were double lung. Second was a mature doe at just under 100m. One round, double lung shot again. Doe ran about 50m and died. When skinning the doe I did find some jacket fragments. The only bone that was hit was rib bones. All shots had an entry and exit hole and were both pretty small compared to a solid copper like a barnes ttsx or lapua naturalis. I still load a bunch up for my 300wm every year and confirm zero and dope for reasonable hunting distances because there extremely accurate. But my main hunting rifle is a 308 with copper boolits. If I were hunting in an area I expected to be taking 300m plus shots the 300wm & VLDs would be my main hunting rig.
 
I used the VLDH 140’s in 6.5cm. At the low velocity of 2710, I shot two mule deer, one at 150, one at 200. No problem, one bang flop, the other one walked 15 yards and died, they do some damage. At normal hunting distances I would think the target version would work fine at faster velocities. One way to find out.
 
I've used them in my 7-08 for years with good effect, this year it was used to take 4 mule deer and a whitetail ( my brothers rifle pooched and he used mine for 2 mule deer). They act as a typical cup and core bullet with no surprises.
 
If coyotes are in season you could always shoot one of them and see how they perform before using them on something your going to eat. IMHO shot placement is the biggest factor in taking game. No bullet is going to perform well if it goes snout to tail through multiple bones. Obviously no one goes into a hunt planning on taking a bad shot but there's a lot of variables in hunting and we do our best to mitigate them to take the most ethical shot but things still happen. I know I wouldn't want to go into a hunt with a bullet I'm not confident in.
 
FortHunter said:
If coyotes are in season you could always shoot one of them and see how they perform before using them on something your going to eat. IMHO shot placement is the biggest factor in taking game. No bullet is going to perform well if it goes snout to tail through multiple bones. Obviously no one goes into a hunt planning on taking a bad shot but there's a lot of variables in hunting and we do our best to mitigate them to take the most ethical shot but things still happen. I know I wouldn't want to go into a hunt with a bullet I'm not confident in.
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Well what about off angle shots? I shot a big whitetail doe heavily quartering away. The 180gr pill went in just in front of her hip high, went through the liver, lung, part of the heart, exited the chest and lodged in the knee.

Do the bergers just enter a couple inches then blow up or are they a bullet that is expected to exit the animal? Especially in a 243.

Thanks
 
In my experience they have all exited, with the one that shed some of its jacket. The only bone I hit was rib. They performed the same as other cup and core bullets I've used.
 
My first experience with the VLDs wasn't favorable; amounting to splash wounds on deer that were an inch deep and a mile wide. It was easy swear off them, and sold that supply of 190 gr 30 cals to friends who insisted on it instead of banging them off at long range steel like I was going to.

Trouble was; being that I'd sold them to people I knew, I had to hear and see spectacular results with the same stupid bullets that I used to own. Eventually, I just had to try them again but 180 grain 7s at STW and similar speeds this time. This time I was getting the most reliable fastest kills at both long and short range, and they exited far more often than not. Moose, and elk and red deer weren't immune to their charms either. The 195 EOL at nearly 3100 out of a 30" 28 Nosler is like a force of nature, when those bombs land the boys back in town hear the hit. Eventually I just had to dip my toes back into the 30 Cals with 185 Classic Hunters and 190 VLDs again. No problems and fast kills with clean carcasses on rib hits and the typical carnage that everything has on shoulder hits.

The original offending rifle was a basically stock 700 Police with a rather rough barrel. It shot well but never fantastic; when I pulled it off I was mad and curious enough to split it lengthwise on a power hacksaw to get the best possible look at the anomally that I had detected just in front of the leade. Turns out it was a serious gouge right around the barrel where we could only surmise was from the reamer pilot grabbing and tearing a swath out of bore about 3/16s of an inch wide and deeper than the grooves. It was a couple decades later more or less, when a couple gents both named John (last names withheld but you can probably guess) explained what bore induced bullet damage was, and what a big deal it can be. You live and learn I guess.
 
They absolutely grenade inside the animal. Lots of damage and blood shot meat. They are extremely effective against animals relatively small compared to the cartridge. A deer drops like a bag of rocks.
On larger animals like moose your probably better off with a traditional bullet.
 
My hunting partners and I have been using Berger bullets for about 13 years now. My main rifle is a Gunwerks 300 Rum 215 berger hybrid at 3155. We have shot multiple elk almost every year over the past 13 years. Shot many moose and deer, but we are mainly elk hunters. My buddys kid shot a Bull Moose with a 308 using 168 berger. I could go on forever about what game we have killed using 6.5 Creedmoor, 308,300 win mag, and 204 on coyote. Longest kill with 204 has been 750 yards. longest kill on an elk is 686 yards. With my group of hunters, rarely do we get exit wounds, yes on coyote and deer. However on moose and elk almost never, unless shot with in close range. In my opinion yes these bullets explode, causing massive internal damage to the organs. We have never lost an animal, here is where the arguments may start. OH there is no blood trail to track!! Heard this many times, LOL. These bullets wont punch through bone!! LOL.. These bullets punch through bone and steel like they are paper!! I can guarantee this. What has made no sense to me, and this will cause a war, I Personally would rather dump all the energy of the bullet INSIDE the animal and cause the most damage then have that energy pass through and NOT be dumped inside. I could go on forever. TRUST IN BERGER !! You will never be disappointed unless you shoot him in the foot LOL
It is almost normal to see damage to the lungs,liver,and heart with one shot. DEVASTATING THE ANIMAL, ACCURACY IS AMAZING. There is a awesome video on you tube comparing Berger vs Hornady on ballistic gel at 25 yards,100 yards and 500 yards. Watch it and you will see why to avoid Hornady for anything long range on game!!
 
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Berger VLD's kill faster than most any other bullet type. Judging bullet performance by its weight retention is not a proper measure of its lethality... Just my personal observations though YMMV :)
 
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Technology has given us many new bullets to choose from all of which have their merits, over 50 years of hunting I have taken many animals with just about every kind of bullet out there, SP, Partition, AB, TTSX, ELDX, core lock and more and I can say with all honesty that I have never lost an animal, in every hunting situation shot placement is far more important that the bullet you use, taking marginal shots at animals is just wrong, the best bullet in the wrong spot on an animal is going to make for a long day. Shooting at animals in the field at 5 or 600 yards is way different that shooting a metal plate off the bench at the range, there is no magic bullet, choose your bullet but more importantly choose your shot carefully. Just an old guy's 2 cents worth.
 
hawk-i said:
Berger VLD's kill faster than most any other bullet type. Judging bullet performance by its weight retention is not a proper measure of its lethality... Just my personal observations though YMMV :)
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Yeah, animals don't weigh a bullet to find out if they are dead or not. Some retained weight could very well be a good thing, working on the assumption that if blowing up about half of the bullet with spectacular results didn't get the job done then at least there was some portion of an expanded bullet that would keep going and you wouldn't be any worse off than with a bullet that only expanded.

Some guy will look at the 1/2 weight retaining bullet and leap to the conclusion that if 50% is good then 100% must be sufficient reason to throw a party at minimum, or a parade on the high end. The guys that write the ad copy are happy to help with that line of reasoning, their job is pretty easy, just say whatever their bullet does is the best. If they didn't they'd be fired before their coffee got cold.

It's less clear why our conclusion leaping hero didn't decide that if blowing up half of the bullet was good; that blowing up 100% would catapult him to legend status, be least ballard worthy and the resulting cable TV fame would be an obvious bare minimum.

People would be a lot better informed if they paid more attention to the bullet hole/wound channel and less to what the bullet ended up looking like. That's unlikely to happen, because their mind was made up when they purchased the bullet.
 
The only experience I personally have with Berger bullets was when a friend shot a doe across the river a few year back.
410 yards, 7mm magnum. 180 grain VLD I think.
It was a most impressive shot, the animal didn't take a step, but went straight down.
Exit was the size of a baseball.
Cat
 
hawk-i said:
Berger VLD's kill faster than most any other bullet type. Judging bullet performance by its weight retention is not a proper measure of its lethality... Just my personal observations though YMMV :)
Click to expand...

If bullet weight should not considered I think there is a problem. If you have a lead core bullet that you cannot find or does not exist then all of that is being blasted through the animal and potentially into meat. I refuse to use a 270 130gr because of what I have seen with lung shots ruining both shoulders because a rib was clipped.

I think these Bergers will be used for target and coyotes, based on what people are saying they do blow up and dump all their energy inside, but if my wife takes an off angle shot on a deer and it blows up on the shoulder blade or ruins half the meat there is no point in using it.

The 243 has a light bullet and low sectional density for any big game anyway, any off angle and bullet explosive expansion seems to go against what a big game bullet should really do. It may work fine in a 7mm or 30 cal and grenade in the lungs of a big game animal but that seems like way too much.
 
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