Best all around bush gun (rifle or shotgun)
- Thread starter BCpopgun
- Start date
When I was still able to pack bundles and set up a camp, my canoe rifle was an 1871 Mauser Cavalry Carbine which had been chopped to make it lighter. Takes a monstrous .43-calibre CF round: ideal medicine for the Bears and Cougars in the Assiniboine Valley.
If you are on a tight budget, there is always a Cooey Carcano. Takes 6.5x54MS ammo (one of the best bush rounds ever invented), very simple sights, loads with a 6-round packet clip. The clip can be ejected and carried in a pocket. Loading the rifle is quick: open the bolt, stuff in a clip, slap the bolt shut; you have 5 in the mag and 1 up the pipe.
Cooey and Model 38 Carcanos (which are in 6.5x52, BTW) have very simple, fixed sights. They are rugged, reliable, simple and very cheap.
If you are on a tight budget, there is always a Cooey Carcano. Takes 6.5x54MS ammo (one of the best bush rounds ever invented), very simple sights, loads with a 6-round packet clip. The clip can be ejected and carried in a pocket. Loading the rifle is quick: open the bolt, stuff in a clip, slap the bolt shut; you have 5 in the mag and 1 up the pipe.
Cooey and Model 38 Carcanos (which are in 6.5x52, BTW) have very simple, fixed sights. They are rugged, reliable, simple and very cheap.
I think you answered your own question right there...
That would be my pick. I thinking about selling my 870 in favour of a 45/70 or 450 Marlin.
der_martin
New member
- Location
- Winnipeg, MB
Russian SKS, hands down.
Cranky Pants
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I snagged a KSG for such situations and have been putting it to good use. Ran into 13 bears over the past 2 weekends 11 of those were on foot and under 50 feet. Fortunately I have had a suitable weapon each time.
Friday evening I could have put the first notch on the KSG but I thought a 12 slug at 6 feet might be messy, bear was on the small side so not a shooter.
It's light, very short. Holds a ton of ammo and is a breeze to carry in the woods.
Friday evening I could have put the first notch on the KSG but I thought a 12 slug at 6 feet might be messy, bear was on the small side so not a shooter.
It's light, very short. Holds a ton of ammo and is a breeze to carry in the woods.
snackberry
Member
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
- Remlin 1895g with HSM 430 gn bear load
- Mossberg 500 12 ga Persuader (18.5") with 2.75" brenneke slugs
Note I've never shot a bear, and I've looked on the internet high and low as to what firearms would be ideal for stopping brown bear attacks. These are the firearms / ammo combination I decided to go with.
- Mossberg 500 12 ga Persuader (18.5") with 2.75" brenneke slugs
Note I've never shot a bear, and I've looked on the internet high and low as to what firearms would be ideal for stopping brown bear attacks. These are the firearms / ammo combination I decided to go with.
Well don't know how many of the people responding here actually live in or by areas with a bear population but someone has to understand something, first very few bears will actually attack one or more people unless it is a sow or young bear and even then it is rare.
Second bears most will just charge and and stop or turn away.
Third if you need to shoot you will not require many shots because even if you maintain your nerve you will have very little or no time to get a shot off!
If you need to get a shot in it needs to break things like shoulders and so forth. Forget about semi autos, forget about magazines, just keep it simple and deadly. If there is a bit of bush between you and the bear and you have a high velocity fragmenting round good luck it will just explode and not do much to the bear, that is where a 30-30, 45 LC, .44 mag, .444, or 45-70 will do better.
Time and time again it has been reported that a large frontal slow moving round are the most effective! You need to punch into the threat and break it up and dump a s much energy as possible. Lately small lever actions in 44/45 have become popular but have you ever tried to shoulder one and get a decent cheek weld?
So after decades of spending time in the bush and never having to discharge a weapon for self preservation guess what I use as my trunk, hiking, camping gun, yup a 12 gauge!!!!
I have packed .308, a 7.62X39, 870s, Ithacas, Mossbergs, and after a few years of shooting my Chinese 12.5" Grizzly pump with ghostrings, picatinny aluminum forearm, triangle front grip,and reduced LOP (length of pull) syn overmould buttstock I know it is dependable.
It ain't pretty, but is tough and with those ghostrings I can put a world of heavy lead hurt in the boilermaker whenever I want.
The 20mm rails allows for a powerful LED light to be slid on if needed and the tri front grip ensures that I have a firm grip for the pump action as I have been told if you are charged by a bear you will sh_t yourself.
Rememeber a 12 gauge is a friggin big hunk of lead and in 3" magnum nothing short of an armoured car is going to be able to shrug a hit off.
Randy
Second bears most will just charge and and stop or turn away.
Third if you need to shoot you will not require many shots because even if you maintain your nerve you will have very little or no time to get a shot off!
If you need to get a shot in it needs to break things like shoulders and so forth. Forget about semi autos, forget about magazines, just keep it simple and deadly. If there is a bit of bush between you and the bear and you have a high velocity fragmenting round good luck it will just explode and not do much to the bear, that is where a 30-30, 45 LC, .44 mag, .444, or 45-70 will do better.
Time and time again it has been reported that a large frontal slow moving round are the most effective! You need to punch into the threat and break it up and dump a s much energy as possible. Lately small lever actions in 44/45 have become popular but have you ever tried to shoulder one and get a decent cheek weld?
So after decades of spending time in the bush and never having to discharge a weapon for self preservation guess what I use as my trunk, hiking, camping gun, yup a 12 gauge!!!!
I have packed .308, a 7.62X39, 870s, Ithacas, Mossbergs, and after a few years of shooting my Chinese 12.5" Grizzly pump with ghostrings, picatinny aluminum forearm, triangle front grip,and reduced LOP (length of pull) syn overmould buttstock I know it is dependable.
It ain't pretty, but is tough and with those ghostrings I can put a world of heavy lead hurt in the boilermaker whenever I want.
The 20mm rails allows for a powerful LED light to be slid on if needed and the tri front grip ensures that I have a firm grip for the pump action as I have been told if you are charged by a bear you will sh_t yourself.
Rememeber a 12 gauge is a friggin big hunk of lead and in 3" magnum nothing short of an armoured car is going to be able to shrug a hit off.
Randy
Really the main options are a 12ga or a lever gun. From there you break it down based on what you are comfortable with, weight, and stopping power. Generally the more stopping power the heavier the gun and the less likely you are to have it in your hands when you need it because it's a pain in the ass to lug around all the time. Also you want something that you'll have on you at all times which is why handguns are really the proper way to go but Liberal #######s decided to throw people not residing full time in inner cities under the bus for votes. So what it boils down to is that you can have the most powerful gun on the planet but if it's not in your hands it's pretty useless to you when you need it so portability/convenience should rank as your top attributes to look for in a gun to use for bush carry.
Anyway some points to consider on the most popular options:
Shotguns: Effective, cheap, commonly available ammo(brenneke slugs are less common but fosters are found everywhere), when fully loaded are rather heavy to lug around.
45-70 Lever gun: Highly effective with modern loadings(trap door loads are less powerful), suitable ammunition generally available most places, expensive gun/ammo, heavy.
ranch hand in 44mag: Decently effective with the right loads, ammunition available at most gun shops, extremely light, can be holstered in a bulky fashion so it's always on you, kind of awkward to shoot fast and accurately.
Ranch hand in 44mag w/ full stock: Decently effective with the right loads, ammunition available at most gun shops, light, fast to point and shoot.
30-30 Lever gun: Decently effective with the right loads, ammunition available everywhere, fairly light, decently fast to point and shoot.
1892 Lever gun in 454 Casull: Slightly less power than handloaded 45-70, Light(5.5lbs), ammunition essentially requires hand loading to shoot from a rifle.(This is what I pack)
Double Rifle in 470 nitro express: The poor bastard won't know what hit him, medium-heavy to pack depending on model, ammunition not commonly available, need to shell out $10k plus for something worth shooting, scratching the finish results in a hernia for a normal person.
Anyway some points to consider on the most popular options:
Shotguns: Effective, cheap, commonly available ammo(brenneke slugs are less common but fosters are found everywhere), when fully loaded are rather heavy to lug around.
45-70 Lever gun: Highly effective with modern loadings(trap door loads are less powerful), suitable ammunition generally available most places, expensive gun/ammo, heavy.
ranch hand in 44mag: Decently effective with the right loads, ammunition available at most gun shops, extremely light, can be holstered in a bulky fashion so it's always on you, kind of awkward to shoot fast and accurately.
Ranch hand in 44mag w/ full stock: Decently effective with the right loads, ammunition available at most gun shops, light, fast to point and shoot.
30-30 Lever gun: Decently effective with the right loads, ammunition available everywhere, fairly light, decently fast to point and shoot.
1892 Lever gun in 454 Casull: Slightly less power than handloaded 45-70, Light(5.5lbs), ammunition essentially requires hand loading to shoot from a rifle.(This is what I pack)
Double Rifle in 470 nitro express: The poor bastard won't know what hit him, medium-heavy to pack depending on model, ammunition not commonly available, need to shell out $10k plus for something worth shooting, scratching the finish results in a hernia for a normal person.
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The reason I mentioned a bolt gun in 375 Ruger is due to the fact that in the last 2 summers past (ie not this one) I have had 2 encounters with large grizzlies in the Cariboos that were clearly predatory or protecting a kill with cubs near. I base this on 30 plus years of being in that area and having many, many non-threatening (some being downright humorous) run-ins with both blacks and grizzlies. The most recent interaction was as close to an actual attack that I want to get again, ever
Strangely in both instances there was ample ability to utilize the distance advantage that a rifle has over a shotgun. One was in deep brush with a clearing (old block), the other in the alpine. The ability to engage at longer distances is not something that one normally thinks with regard to bears but hey, been there. The Ruger Guide gun with an 18.5 inch barrel puts a big chunk of lead downrange and isn’t diverted by foliage. In both instances with this rifle I could have dropped both bears way before the critter got into shotgun range. Ie it dies before it kills me. Which is something that would I worry about with smaller calibers (given that people have been hunting all sorts of big bears with 30-30, 6.5s, 243s, and 38 cal hand guns,but we are talking survival situation here with minimal time for considered shot placement).
Also, important for me, getting a left handed model is quite useful. Thought about the 45-70 levers (I know ambi-dexterous) but got the Ruger instead, better sights out of the box, easier to scope, no out of the box quality issues imo and while slower to chamber than a lever suits my needs better – going to only get off 4 or less rounds anyways.
Having said that I been looking at the remlins again and will probably buy a guide gun, they look like great fun, but probably won’t carry it in the bush. Who knows might change my mind but the Ruger is my primary. So don’t discount bolts as no matter what you are carrying if you don’t hit it, it won’t matter.
When I am in heavy timber with thick understory and everything gets beat to heck the 590 is what I carry and have done so for 20 years. Ironically my near miss with the grizzly was sans any firearm whatsoever – Murphy’s Law.
How can you tell I have nothing to do on a rainy /snowy Sunday, lol
Strangely in both instances there was ample ability to utilize the distance advantage that a rifle has over a shotgun. One was in deep brush with a clearing (old block), the other in the alpine. The ability to engage at longer distances is not something that one normally thinks with regard to bears but hey, been there. The Ruger Guide gun with an 18.5 inch barrel puts a big chunk of lead downrange and isn’t diverted by foliage. In both instances with this rifle I could have dropped both bears way before the critter got into shotgun range. Ie it dies before it kills me. Which is something that would I worry about with smaller calibers (given that people have been hunting all sorts of big bears with 30-30, 6.5s, 243s, and 38 cal hand guns,but we are talking survival situation here with minimal time for considered shot placement).
Also, important for me, getting a left handed model is quite useful. Thought about the 45-70 levers (I know ambi-dexterous) but got the Ruger instead, better sights out of the box, easier to scope, no out of the box quality issues imo and while slower to chamber than a lever suits my needs better – going to only get off 4 or less rounds anyways.
Having said that I been looking at the remlins again and will probably buy a guide gun, they look like great fun, but probably won’t carry it in the bush. Who knows might change my mind but the Ruger is my primary. So don’t discount bolts as no matter what you are carrying if you don’t hit it, it won’t matter.
When I am in heavy timber with thick understory and everything gets beat to heck the 590 is what I carry and have done so for 20 years. Ironically my near miss with the grizzly was sans any firearm whatsoever – Murphy’s Law.
How can you tell I have nothing to do on a rainy /snowy Sunday, lol
1+ for the Mossberg 590A1. I have the "Special Purpose" model, 18.5 inch, Bushnell red dot mounted. This shotgun is built to take all abuse, just works under all conditions. I took it deer hunting and placed the shot at 80 yards, rifled slug. If I had to give up all my guns and could only keep one - this is the one.
