best ar15 for under $1300

notsorichguy said:
Any AR of any stripe or manufacture, irregardless of type of ammo shot (bi-metal being the hardest on a bore) or range abuse (full cap mag dumps etc), should be able to digest at least 6000 rounds before any major components require replacement. Springs and extractors notwithstanding. We all know that steel cased ammo is hard on extractors. Recoil springs generally only have a service life of 5K. But a spring kit (replaces every spring in an AR) is going to run you under $60.

My $.02
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Then you all know wrong. The case to make the steel is softer than the steel used to make the extractor. The only way to damage a grade of steel with another grade of steel is if it is harder. Case steel is always softer than extractor steel. It has to be in order for it to be shaped. Some extractors are mim, some are cast, and I am pretty sure some cnc billet extractors also exist, the grade(I have yet to see otherwise) of steel for extractor has always been of a harder material than case steel.

The problem with steel cased ammo (exception to some premium stuff like hornady match steel) is that it's usually built on the cheap side and utilizes the cheapest possible bullets, mostly bimetal, and like you said that type of bullet is harder on your barrel. IIRC there was a company that did a torture test with 3 steel cased ammo and 1 brass cased, I will post the link when I find it, the biggest problem with steel cased ammo and its cheaper bimetal bullet will burn through the barrel faster.
 
r34skyline said:
Then you all know wrong. The case to make the steel is softer than the steel used to make the extractor. The only way to damage a grade of steel with another grade of steel is if it is harder. Case steel is always softer than extractor steel. It has to be in order for it to be shaped. Some extractors are mim, some are cast, and I am pretty sure some cnc billet extractors also exist, the grade(I have yet to see otherwise) of steel for extractor has always been of a harder material than case steel.

The problem with steel cased ammo (exception to some premium stuff like hornady match steel) is that it's usually built on the cheap side and utilizes the cheapest possible bullets, mostly bimetal, and like you said that type of bullet is harder on your barrel. IIRC there was a company that did a torture test with 3 steel cased ammo and 1 brass cased, I will post the link when I find it, the biggest problem with steel cased ammo and its cheaper bimetal bullet will burn through the barrel faster.
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Thanks tips!

So you think steel case ammo is same same as brass?

You think brass cases won't wear out an extractor over time as well?

This is the web post I believe you alluded to;
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

I have actually worn out extractors in ARs...... You?
 
notsorichguy said:
Thanks tips!

So you think steel case ammo is same same as brass?

You think brass cases won't wear out an extractor over time as well?

This is the web post I believe you alluded to;
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

I have actually worn out extractors in ARs...... You?
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That is the web posts I am refering to.

You have worn out extractors? At what round count have these extractors been worn out? Do you have any pictures comparing worn extractors to original?

I don't think the material of the case has the adverse effects on the extractor so much as its expansion/contraction properties, and I would be much more worried about the crappy bullets messing up the barrel than the extractor

I already told you brass and steel cased ammo don't have the same properties steel doesn't expand or contract as fast leading to more friction on the extraction cycle, hence why steel cased ammo tends to suffer from more failure to extract, eject and have more incidences of case head separation. And I would imagine it would stress the extractor more because of the added drag of the case. If a strong extractor spring is installed I doubt there would be substantial difference in extractor life brass vs steel granted the extractor is also a quality piece

But hey you wore out the extractors not me. Let me go ahead and toss my metallurgy texbooks right out because you clearly know better. Laugh2



Anyways it looks like I might be derailing this thread. OP, I can't speak for the IUR since I haven't tried it, but my CC SA20 has performed well so far and looks like it is well built so that odell lmsr2 or whatever it's called could be a solid option.

I don't have much time only a little over 1000 rounds through the core15 but it has been positive so far.

Windham seems to have positive reviews, also check Irunguns occasionally they bring in colt le6920 at screaming good prices.

And like some mentioned if you can grab a daniel defense at this price don't hesitate.
 
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^Well, you're kinda contradicting yourself:
The extractor steel and steel from the case is A-ok because the extractor is a stronger steel.
But the bimetal bullet going through the bore isn't ok? Is the copper/steel jacket stronger than the barrel steel?
 
BigDerp said:
^Well, you're kinda contradicting yourself:
The extractor steel and steel from the case is A-ok because the extractor is a stronger steel.
But the bimetal bullet going through the bore isn't ok? Is the copper/steel jacket stronger than the barrel steel?
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Is it just the steel? What about the impurities in the bullet material? Lead core is softer than steel core, bimetal jacket is harder than copper jacket. Steel cased bullets are made on the cheap. That's why they are typically dirtier ammo as well, anyways, steel cased ammo typically have cheaper albeit harder bullets, now 223 comes out what roughly 3000 feet per second? Think about the friction of that bullet going through the bore. The amount of heat generated by that friction on top of the mini explosion that is pushing the bullet along and out of the barrel. So tell me what would create less heat stress on the barrel? The softer lead core copper jacket bullet? Or the steel core bimetal that will not deform that little bit and generate the extra frictional wear? Remember friction heat is what kills barrels over time(Ever notice how the faster mv guns like 22-250 or 204 ruger tend to be the barrel burners?)
 
r34skyline said:
Is it just the steel? What about the impurities in the bullet material? Lead core is softer than steel core, bimetal jacket is harder than copper jacket. Steel cased bullets are made on the cheap. That's why they are typically dirtier ammo as well, anyways, steel cased ammo typically have cheaper albeit harder bullets, now 223 comes out what roughly 3000 feet per second? Think about the friction of that bullet going through the bore. The amount of heat generated by that friction on top of the mini explosion that is pushing the bullet along and out of the barrel. So tell me what would create less heat stress on the barrel? The softer lead core copper jacket bullet? Or the steel core bimetal that will not deform that little bit and generate the extra frictional wear? Remember friction heat is what kills barrels over time(Ever notice how the faster mv guns like 22-250 or 204 ruger tend to be the barrel burners?)
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I don't disagree with you but it's counter-intuitive to think it's not also more difficult on the extractor.
 
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