Best cartridge in the cold?

maxinumarmor said:
I load my own when i have time and this is what i have been useing it is insensitive to hot/cold temperatures which would be good for Norwegianinbaffinland if he starts loading for himself.308 or 30-06 his choice. [with a large rifle primer like a CCI250 mag primer]

H4350
This Extreme Extruded propellant is a burning speed that has been known to shooters for decades. During that time, Hodgdon has modernized H4350 by shortening the grains for improved metering and making it insensitive to hot/cold temperatures. H4350 is ideal in the WSM family of calibers (270, 7mm, 30, 325). H4350 is the standard in such cartridges as the 243 Winchester, 6mm Remington, 270 Winchester, 338 Winchester Magnum and many more. For magnums with light to moderate weight bullets, it can't be beat! Available in 1 lb. & 8 lb. containers.

Our exclusive line of extruded rifle powders – Hodgdon Extreme™ – was developed to give shooters consistent performance, load after load, in even the most extreme heat and cold.​


http://www.hodgdon.com/extreme.html
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Adequate priming is extremely important at cold temperatures. The target shooter's creed of minimizing the primer violence to maximize accuracy doesn't apply when the temperature drops below -20 C.

But I believe Hodgdon's Extreme powders temperature stability only applies to hot conditions not cold. If you use a temperature stable powder in hot conditions, it means you have reduced the volume of gas that would otherwise be produced. Conversely in the cold you must do the opposite and effectively increase the burning rate and pressure of the powder. Therefore I don't think you can have it both ways, and since Hodgdon's Extreme line of powders is made is Australia, its unlikely that arctic cold was considered except perhaps by the company's sales department.

Using Hodgdon's Extreme Powders, other than H-100V I've found that my loads chronograph at a lower velocity in the cold, and that loads I worked up in the winter created dangerous pressures in the summer. But then H-100V is not an Australian powder.
 
Misfiring when its cold is almost invariably the result of poor preparation of the rifle.
Rather than running the thing dry, I prefer to use a low temp. lube.
Better to disassemble the bolt and clean it than to just flood the assembly with naptha or other solvent and hope for the best.

Easy enough to do testing. Leave the lube outside, see what happens to it.

If a bolt does freeze up, it is not a good practice to hold it over the flame of a Coleman stove to thaw it out. It is even a worse practice to hold the action of the rifle over the stove.

Bullet velocity can drop in extreme cold. Dramatic drop with a .22.
 
Arctichunter said:
I've hunted a great deal in Nunavut and the upper Arctic. I agree that the problem of a misfire is most likely congealed lubricant on the firing pin. A simple fix is to rinse out your bolt with Naphtha gas ( readily available), and run the bolt dry.


Good hunting; you live in an exciting part of Canada.
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When I lived and hunted in the north (very cold and dry) we did the same.
Get a large zip lock bag, your bolt, and naphtha. Shake well.
One treatment and my old canoe paddel ruger worked fine for years.
Never a speck of rust either.
 
I hear what your saying but my dad and i [who got me into reloading] have been useing 4350 since we started reloading 30 years ago we used/use IMR and HODGDONS with a CCI 250 primer it worked for us so we stuck with it i am just recently been trying new powers but if i don't see any inprovements i will be going back to the 4350 we have had NO problems with our rifles or ammo summer or winter NO jamming NO stickness NO misfires NO weird or heavy recoil my 88 that i picked up in 1982 and his 99 he got in 1962 just kept eatting up what ever we used i'm thinking in 30 years some problem would of showed up by now and that would be hunting in northern B.C. ALB. SACK. AND ONTARIO [that is Canadian weather conditions] we never had our rifles up in Iqaluit or say Mexico weather maybe then some issues would/might show up but Hodgdons calls this line of power Extreme for a reason Extreme conditions it has been tested in all parts of the world the real test for this line of powder would be in Iqaluit.[but i'm sure someone has already done it]
Can't say much about the 30-06 never used it,the 308 has always been good for us out to 600 yards [300 on the average] but i like my 303s 7mm 57 and 8mm 57 too.;)




Boomer said:
Adequate priming is extremely important at cold temperatures. The target shooter's creed of minimizing the primer violence to maximize accuracy doesn't apply when the temperature drops below -20 C.

But I believe Hodgdon's Extreme powders temperature stability only applies to hot conditions not cold. If you use a temperature stable powder in hot conditions, it means you have reduced the volume of gas that would otherwise be produced. Conversely in the cold you must do the opposite and effectively increase the burning rate and pressure of the powder. Therefore I don't think you can have it both ways, and since Hodgdon's Extreme line of powders is made is Australia, its unlikely that arctic cold was considered except perhaps by the company's sales department.

Using Hodgdon's Extreme Powders, other than H-100V I've found that my loads chronograph at a lower velocity in the cold, and that loads I worked up in the winter created dangerous pressures in the summer. But then H-100V is not an Australian powder.
Click to expand...
 
+1 But never tried naptha first i heard of it just old fashion cleaning and care.



tiriaq said:
Misfiring when its cold is almost invariably the result of poor preparation of the rifle.
Rather than running the thing dry, I prefer to use a low temp. lube.
Better to disassemble the bolt and clean it than to just flood the assembly with naptha or other solvent and hope for the best.

Easy enough to do testing. Leave the lube outside, see what happens to it.

If a bolt does freeze up, it is not a good practice to hold it over the flame of a Coleman stove to thaw it out. It is even a worse practice to hold the action of the rifle over the stove.

Bullet velocity can drop in extreme cold. Dramatic drop with a .22.
Click to expand...
 
k98 Norwegian Capture, re-chambered in 30-06.

IMG_0876.jpg


k98 on the bottom is a 30-06.
 
maxinumarmor said:
I hear what your saying but my dad and i [who got me into reloading] have been useing 4350 since we started reloading 30 years ago we used/use IMR and HODGDONS with a CCI 250 primer it worked for us so we stuck with it i am just recently been trying new powers but if i don't see any inprovements i will be going back to the 4350 we have had NO problems with our rifles or ammo summer or winter NO jamming NO stickness NO misfires NO weird or heavy recoil my 88 that i picked up in 1982 and his 99 he got in 1962 just kept eatting up what ever we used i'm thinking in 30 years some problem would of showed up by now and that would be hunting in northern B.C. ALB. SACK. AND ONTARIO [that is Canadian weather conditions] we never had our rifles up in Iqaluit or say Mexico weather maybe then some issues would/might show up but Hodgdons calls this line of power Extreme for a reason Extreme conditions it has been tested in all parts of the world the real test for this line of powder would be in Iqaluit.[but i'm sure someone has already done it]
Can't say much about the 30-06 never used it,the 308 has always been good for us out to 600 yards [300 on the average] but i like my 303s 7mm 57 and 8mm 57 too.;)
Click to expand...

H-4350 is one of my favorite powders and I've used it in many applications from the .243 to the .375 Ultra. The key to its success is that it has the right burning rate for many combinations of case capacity and powder weights. If you only intend to stock one powder for medium case capacity cartridges, you can't go wrong with 4350. We do a fair bit of shooting in the cold here, although my interest in doing so is waning now that I'm getting a bit older, and I have observed many cold weather velocity changes with Extreme Powders in general and with H-4350 in particular. The most worrying example to me, was a load I worked up for a pal's then new .375 Ruger the winter he got it. I worked up a load with 270 gr TSXs over H-4350 (I also tried, W-760, & R-19 at the same time). He liked the H-4350 load and although his go to bullet is the 260 gr Accubond, he kept a few 270 gr TSXs loads for special occasions, but when he shot them in the summer he experienced a sticky bolt where in the cold the load cycled and fired without a hiccup. Apparently a 60 degree C temperature swing is outside of the design parameters.

I accept that the Extreme Powders are a benefit to handloaders who live in or who intend to hunt and/or shoot in hot climates, but as far as I'm concerned their claim of temperature stability doesn't apply to cold conditions. Its not tough to figure out for yourself though. Work up a maximum load for your rifle in the summer, and put them away until its ugly cold in the winter. Allow the ammo and your rifle's temperature to match the ambient air temperature, then shoot over a chronograph and check the velocity. I bet its lower. By the way, chronographs suck in the cold, so you'll have to put the unit in a box with hand warmers under it, allowing just the screens to be exposed to the outside air.

As I stated earlier, Hodgdon's H-100V is the only powder I'm aware of that is tested in cold temperatures. Now the way they conduct the test is interesting, and I'm not sure it actually applies to how a powder behaves at cold temperature when used as a propellant in a rifle cartridge. What they do is airburst a 1000 pounds of the stuff at high altitude where the temperature is -40, and they measure the over-pressure created by the blast. From that data they make the claim that Hybrid powders are stable in cold temperatures leading one to assume that there are Hybrid powders other than H-100V, but which are not available as a loading component to handloaders.
 
Did you notess if they had working temps on there site because i don't recall seeing any? I never been out in a 60 degree C temperature swing it has always been cool or cold animals don't move around to much in the heat.[hunting or the range]



Boomer said:
H-4350 is one of my favorite powders and I've used it in many applications from the .243 to the .375 Ultra. The key to its success is that it has the right burning rate for many combinations of case capacity and powder weights. If you only intend to stock one powder for medium case capacity cartridges, you can't go wrong with 4350. We do a fair bit of shooting in the cold here, although my interest in doing so is waning now that I'm getting a bit older, and I have observed many cold weather velocity changes with Extreme Powders in general and with H-4350 in particular. The most worrying example to me, was a load I worked up for a pal's then new .375 Ruger the winter he got it. I worked up a load with 270 gr TSXs over H-4350 (I also tried, W-760, & R-19 at the same time). He liked the H-4350 load and although his go to bullet is the 260 gr Accubond, he kept a few 270 gr TSXs loads for special occasions, but when he shot them in the summer he experienced a sticky bolt where in the cold the load cycled and fired without a hiccup. Apparently a 60 degree C temperature swing is outside of the design parameters.

I accept that the Extreme Powders are a benefit to handloaders who live in or who intend to hunt and/or shoot in hot climates, but as far as I'm concerned their claim of temperature stability doesn't apply to cold conditions. Its not tough to figure out for yourself though. Work up a maximum load for your rifle in the summer, and put them away until its ugly cold in the winter. Allow the ammo and your rifle's temperature to match the ambient air temperature, then shoot over a chronograph and check the velocity. I bet its lower. By the way, chronographs suck in the cold, so you'll have to put the unit in a box with hand warmers under it, allowing just the screens to be exposed to the outside air.

As I stated earlier, Hodgdon's H-100V is the only powder I'm aware of that is tested in cold temperatures. Now the way they conduct the test is interesting, and I'm not sure it actually applies to how a powder behaves at cold temperature when used as a propellant in a rifle cartridge. What they do is airburst a 1000 pounds of the stuff at high altitude where the temperature is -40, and they measure the over-pressure created by the blast. From that data they make the claim that Hybrid powders are stable in cold temperatures leading one to assume that there are Hybrid powders other than H-100V, but which are not available as a loading component to handloaders.
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I have always used cci 250 primers because of the cold weather issues. I have shot at -40 lots of times. I think trying to shoot with so many clothes on is the biggest factor. In 1973, during my first winter on my trapline I was very surprised to find that my Husqvarna 30-06 would not fire at all till I cleaned the oil out of the bolt. I think I used kerosene.
 
A nicely broken in bolt action lubed with a wee bit of powdered graphite is what you need, firing a cartridge with enough power to get the job done for the game you're
after...like a .308 or 30.06 for ungulates. I'd look at a .338 WM or equivalent if you
plan on hunting grizzlies.
 
The cartridge doesn't matter. The dry cold preserves everything. The most important thing is to keep the rifle cold. Don't bring it in a warm shelter, vehicle or what have you and go out into the cold. For the action may collect condensation and freeze up. Keep the action dry and always have a round chambered. I like to use iron sights over a scoped rifle in really cold weather. If you hunting large dangerous game like the Arctic Vole you should at least use a 50 bmg.
 
So much written here about primers, but I think something is being overlooked.
I have an article about a scientific test on primers, but I can't find the book it is in. They thoroughly tested the primers in lab conditions. Besides the standard testing, they tested each type, with a different weight of firing it. In other words, the equivelent of having a very strong firing pin spring, a normal weight firing pin and a very light firing pin action.
The bottom line was that the strength the firing pin hit the primer had more to do with the fire power of the primer, than did the type of primer.
They stated that with a strong firing pin hit, a regular primer had more power than did a magnum primer with a weak hit.
We all know a rifle has to have the action degreased, in order to work in severely cold weather. But, in the many cases where people are saying their primer let them down, how many of these were because the bolt wasn't fully cleaned of oil and weakly hit the primer?
 
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