Best FClass Barrels
- Thread starter peterdobson
- Start date
Jerry I am very interested in what you are saying here please share , I have spoken about this topic with a few well known cut rifle makers and they share the same view on this topic which is no stress is induced in the steel from the cut rifling process.
Keep in mind that the steel has to be stress free upon start up .
I shoot f-class as you do and see first hand how well cut rifled barrels will hold a waterline at 1000 and if there was any stress in the barrel you would see it rather quickly I would think.
No stress induced perhaps, but certainly stress relieved.
In FClass, which is what this thread is about, cut-rifled barrels absolutely dominate. This is because they are the best barrels. Not too complicated. Twist uniformity was mentioned. Bartlein can do theirs to .0001" - not possible or even close with other methods which can vary up to an inch!
Regards,
Peter
Regards,
Peter
Last edited:
- Location
- rocky mountain house
I agree with Jerry about putting a box around the best.I really hope fclass can stay away from equipment lists as i feel this "whores" the sport and creates an equipment race mentality.fortunately for fclass and long range bench,which really mirror each other in a lot of ways with regards to equipment and handloading,there has been growth and innovation which is exciting.no action,stock,or barrel really dominate and that is the way it should be.
As far as cut rifling inducing any stress in the process i will strongly disagree with Jerry
;and will stand that residual stresses in the button process is the reason they are being dominated at long range.
As far as cut rifling inducing any stress in the process i will strongly disagree with Jerry
;and will stand that residual stresses in the button process is the reason they are being dominated at long range.
FClass used to be simple, with all using Harris bipods. Now it's impossibly to be competitive without serious and expensive rests, actions, barrels and advanced reloading skills are mandatory. Some were against this march forward but now it has grown to be the most popular of the shooting sports and there is no turning back.
We mentioned that competition is good for all and we hope to see more barrel makers going after the position of the winning few.
Best regards,
Peter
PS, coyote has been corresponding with Boots Obermeyer who has taken interest in his barrel making.
For those who don't know who Obermeyer is, this is a post from another site:
I own several Obermeyer barrels....in several calibers.... I thread and chamber my own rifles and others. I`ve worked and shot with Krieger,Bartlien,Pac-Nor,douglas,mcgowan,snake river,brux,border,lilja and shilen.If I had a choice I would take an Obermeyer first.Boots still shoots competitively and successfully as does any barrel he`s made.He unlike others will stand behind his barrels....he is a metallurgist,machinist,inventor and lucky for us he has trained many other barrel makers.
He is a contributing asset to the shooting community.....
We mentioned that competition is good for all and we hope to see more barrel makers going after the position of the winning few.
Best regards,
Peter
PS, coyote has been corresponding with Boots Obermeyer who has taken interest in his barrel making.
For those who don't know who Obermeyer is, this is a post from another site:
I own several Obermeyer barrels....in several calibers.... I thread and chamber my own rifles and others. I`ve worked and shot with Krieger,Bartlien,Pac-Nor,douglas,mcgowan,snake river,brux,border,lilja and shilen.If I had a choice I would take an Obermeyer first.Boots still shoots competitively and successfully as does any barrel he`s made.He unlike others will stand behind his barrels....he is a metallurgist,machinist,inventor and lucky for us he has trained many other barrel makers.
He is a contributing asset to the shooting community.....
Last edited:
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I love this time of year for testing... Weather here is around -4 to 0C in the mornings. Sunny and winds have been pretty much zip. No mirage, no dust and gunk to cloud the target.
I use this time to vet my gear and focus on the pure art of shooting FTR. So far, it has helped be diagnose my favorite SVSS scope was indeed damaged by Air Canada.. GRRRR.
1 lot of primers will only be used for practise
I pull the occasional shot high left about 1" from center when dressed like a blimp.
And I confirm barrel stability for my barrels for the next season.
Simple test, put up 4 to 5 level aiming points at 200 to 300yds... My range is 250yds. I shoot 4 or 5 groups of 5rds across these aiming points at a pace of around 10 to 15 secs per shot... Nothing rushed but also not slow as I want the barrel to have a steady increase in temp. Should be very warm to the touch when done.
I plot where each shot goes from "cold" fouled 1st shot to last. Repeat as necessary to confirm the temprement of the barrel.
The barrel will either shoot nice tight groups flat across those aiming points or it will not. And then you have your answer...
Stress and stress relieving is truly the black art in barrel manf. The accuracy part is pretty straightforward. Both methods create stress to varying degrees. It is how the manf deals with that which is the key to happy F class shooters.
Go to a big US match like the US Nationals and you will get all sorts of feedback positive and negative about top tier barrel makers...... no manf makes perfect barrels every single time but the ones that are the most successful never stop trying to improve their art....
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
How can Mr. O's barrels be any good? I don't recall seeing a single shooter listing his barrels on their equipment list for the just past US Nationals.
Being sarcastic of couse.. Mr. O has taught most of the industry how to make a barrel and is still teaching some.
But if you going to use a list to prove a point... it is only fair when that same list puts a wrench in your point....
YMMV.
Jerry
Being sarcastic of couse.. Mr. O has taught most of the industry how to make a barrel and is still teaching some.
But if you going to use a list to prove a point... it is only fair when that same list puts a wrench in your point....
YMMV.
Jerry
There was one Obermeyer at nationals. Boots is involved with many large projects and he was mentioned as coyote is corresponding with him on barrel making.
This is a good thing for competition especially as coyote is in New Brunswick and has designed and built his own cut-rifled barrel-making equipment.
Regards,
Peter
This is a good thing for competition especially as coyote is in New Brunswick and has designed and built his own cut-rifled barrel-making equipment.
Regards,
Peter
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Precision shooting seems to run in stages... Barrel making kind of hit a lull. Things were "good" and life was good.
Then bullets changed and that has move the fence posts some.
Now barrel makers are tweaking what they to do help maximise these new bullets... As I said, some ideas show alot of promise... Some ideas, not so much
This moves the limits and again we hit a new higher plateau... then something changes and away we go again. Very exciting times and a huge congrats to ALL the manfs putting in the sweat and money to move outside their comfort areas. Some of the tooling is stupid expensive.
I am also hoping to hear some exciting new powders released for 2016... maybe. Come on ATK....Share the love.
There will be a bullet released that no one makes a twist rate for yet.... how's that for pushing the limits?
I am not saying anything is better then anything else... just that whatever we feel is the "best" today, might be also ran next season. There is alot of study on internal ballistics, jacket stress, barrel stress relieving, rifling styles and shapes (yeah, old story but). I am excited that new options come out of this.
And some of these innovations are not from the most prominent brands of last season or style of manf in vogue today.
When I was at the Worlds in 2013 F open was impressive.... compare that to today and the accuracy has improved overall by a significant margin.
FTR... WOWZA, performance here has jumped leaps and bounds. Today, a top tier FTR rifle would have beat most of the F open rigs at the Worlds. The gap in performance between these two divisions is closing up FAST and the blending of tech between the two classes is obvious
Where will things be by 2017 Worlds??? Who knows but I am happy to work with and support companies that are looking over the next hill.
And I am excited to hear that innovation is also happening in Canada in some very demanding areas... from optics, to barrels, to bullets, to stocks, to ????
It's all very exciting....
Jerry
Then bullets changed and that has move the fence posts some.
Now barrel makers are tweaking what they to do help maximise these new bullets... As I said, some ideas show alot of promise... Some ideas, not so much
This moves the limits and again we hit a new higher plateau... then something changes and away we go again. Very exciting times and a huge congrats to ALL the manfs putting in the sweat and money to move outside their comfort areas. Some of the tooling is stupid expensive.
I am also hoping to hear some exciting new powders released for 2016... maybe. Come on ATK....Share the love.
There will be a bullet released that no one makes a twist rate for yet.... how's that for pushing the limits?
I am not saying anything is better then anything else... just that whatever we feel is the "best" today, might be also ran next season. There is alot of study on internal ballistics, jacket stress, barrel stress relieving, rifling styles and shapes (yeah, old story but). I am excited that new options come out of this.
And some of these innovations are not from the most prominent brands of last season or style of manf in vogue today.
When I was at the Worlds in 2013 F open was impressive.... compare that to today and the accuracy has improved overall by a significant margin.
FTR... WOWZA, performance here has jumped leaps and bounds. Today, a top tier FTR rifle would have beat most of the F open rigs at the Worlds. The gap in performance between these two divisions is closing up FAST and the blending of tech between the two classes is obvious
Where will things be by 2017 Worlds??? Who knows but I am happy to work with and support companies that are looking over the next hill.
And I am excited to hear that innovation is also happening in Canada in some very demanding areas... from optics, to barrels, to bullets, to stocks, to ????
It's all very exciting....
Jerry
IMR has announced IMR 4955 for 2016. Enduron powder with the same burn rate as H4831. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/11/coming-soon-new-imr-4955-enduron-powder/
This year's RL-26 is pretty exciting. I packed 45 gr. of it into a 6x47L case under a 105 Hybrid and hit 3200 fps. when I was breaking in the barrel. At the time, 39.8 gr. of H4350 was getting me 2990 fps. When I tested 39.8 gr. of H4350 yesterday now that the barrel has a few hundred rounds on it, it's up to 3090 fps. Haven't tired the RL-26 load again because it was already at the PRS limit and beyond many match limits, but I imagine it has sped up too...
Bartlein barrel. Use them almost exclusively. Love being able to get exactly what I want.
Last edited:
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Yep, the fence posts keep moving... if we can get some of this stuff
Jerry
Jerry
I love Bartlein because most of the time I don't want the standard offering. Some manufacturers piss and moan if you ask for something custom, others flat out refuse to do custom. Want a different profile, a longer shank so the barrel can be set back, different diameter lands and groves, an oddball twist rate? Bartlein says: "Okay, we can do that!" and they don't take any longer to deliver the barrel or charge you extra unless you want a barrel that's longer than their standard stock lengths. All of my Bartleins have been hammers, they have been super easy to clean and haven't changed POI when they heat up. The twist is always exactly what is stamped on the barrel.
I will if I can get a load for it when I test it with the 115 DTACs. No point with the 105s. The lower node was at the same velocity as my H4350 and IMR4451 loads and there was noticeably more muzzle blast due to the larger powder charge. If it can send the DTACs at 3150 fps. (match limits), it will be worth temp. testing. But, the throat needs to erode a bit because it's too short at the moment (was designed for the 105 Hybrid).
I will if I can get a load for it when I test it with the 115 DTACs. No point with the 105s. The lower node was at the same velocity as my H4350 and IMR4451 loads and there was noticeably more muzzle blast due to the larger powder charge. If it can send the DTACs at 3150 fps. (match limits), it will be worth temp. testing. But, the throat needs to erode a bit because it's too short at the moment (was designed for the 105 Hybrid).
kombayotch, would you be able do some comparison powder testing? We would provide VihtaVuori products. We also have a strain gauge system used for DND contract which attaches to barrel. You would be one of the people that could handle this.
Regards,
Peter
Regards,
Peter
