Best HD option in .223?

How about a PCC like the CX4 Storm ?
Handgun is handy but it is also requires a degree of practice or training.
A PCC would have the weight to dampen the recoil so that even younger or older member of the house can use effectively. Like a rifle, a less skill person would likely find it easier to use.
 
wai762 said:
How about a PCC like the CX4 Storm ?
Handgun is handy but it is also requires a degree of practice or training.
A PCC would have the weight to dampen the recoil so that even younger or older member of the house can use effectively. Like a rifle, a less skill person would likely find it easier to use.
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Read the OP’s first post. He is looking for a .223.
 
Only to be answered by the responding officer. Everything else would just be opinion. We all remember what happened to Ian Thompson.
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The big problem with the Ian Thomson case is that he talked to the police when they arrived.
The entire case against him was based on police testifying about what he said to them on scene.

If he had simply put his gun back in the safe and kept his mouth shut, there would have been no case against him.
 
Dexter Morgan said:
The big problem with the Ian Thomson case is that he talked to the police when they arrived.
The entire case against him was based on police testifying about what he said to them on scene.

If he had simply put his gun back in the safe and kept his mouth shut, there would have been no case against him.
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^^^^^^^^^He talked him self into the issues he had, read the transcripts

Shawn
 
Ebola said:
For home defense I would rather have a M1 carbine in .30cal then something in .223. In a city I would be worried about over penetration with .223 whereas .30cal has adequate stopping power with less worry about tagging a neighbour or their house.

However I would rather use a pistol chambered in 9mm with hollow points or a short barreled 12 gauge shotgun with buckshot before a M1 carbine for home defense.
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f:P:f:P:
 
shawn said:
I dont need to watch it, I have done it. I used my sights and so did everyone else

IF you train you will use your sights, you may not remember it but you will

Shawn
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Respectfully, I want to dig deeper. You are saying that "I dont need to watch it, I have done it. I used my sights and so did everyone else"

I take it as "you" along with "everyone else" has been in a home defense situation where you have had the need to fire specifically a handgun at someone in a home defense situation, where you took time to align your sights on the intruder/target, and fired your shots.

This implies that you are in(or know of) a community of more than a few(aka "everyone else"), who has had experience in actual home defense situation where shots were fired. Please do tell us the situation(s), and outcome including details including law enforcement reactions especially if this happened in Canada.

If you refuse to do us that favour, chances are I might be 90% correct in calling bs in seemingly speaking from experience.
 
PinaKaleada said:
Respectfully, I want to dig deeper. You are saying that "I dont need to watch it, I have done it. I used my sights and so did everyone else"

I take it as "you" along with "everyone else" has been in a home defense situation where you have had the need to fire specifically a handgun at someone in a home defense situation, where you took time to align your sights on the intruder/target, and fired your shots.

This implies that you are in(or know of) a community of more than a few(aka "everyone else"), who has had experience in actual home defense situation where shots were fired. Please do tell us the situation(s), and outcome including details including law enforcement reactions especially if this happened in Canada.

If you refuse to do us that favour, chances are I might be 90% correct in calling bs in seemingly speaking from experience.
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No you are trying to move the goal posts to try and prove yourself correct

I never said any of that BS

So lets use you own logic, Colion Nior has not been in a home defense situation where he had the need to fire specifically a handgun at someone in a home defense situation. Colion Noir has not provided detailed information about the situation(s), and outcome including details including law enforcement reactions

Guess since you say so that means your own argument is BS

What I will tell you is that I was referring to force on force training using sims. Which you and I both know is what I was referencing as you stated that I was incorrect because you found a youtube video of a guy doing it for the first time and declaring that as proof that no one will use their sights. On top of that he was using his sights watch the video, he just did not remember doing it as that is part of the process the body goes through in fight or flight, hard target focus. Which btw is what I said, they would be used but not remembered.

Physiologically the body does a lot of things during a gun fight, some of which can be mitigated with training, some you cant. Its the same reason most people that have been in civilian gun fights cant tell you they saw their sights, how many rounds they fired or how long the gun fight took. Because you body it prioritizing functions to win the fight.

I have done plenty of force on force including sims and used my sights and so has everyone else. Which is what I stated. The only time some people didn't use their sights was the people picking up a gun for the first time and had not trained. They panicked

There is mountains of information on this google it, from more qualified people than me or a lawyer that likes guns and make youtube videos.

Which is why I stated get training, train and use your sights.

Shawn
 
shawn said:
No you are trying to move the goal posts to try and prove yourself correct

I never said any of that BS

So lets use you own logic, Colion Nior has not been in a home defense situation where he had the need to fire specifically a handgun at someone in a home defense situation. Colion Noir has not provided detailed information about the situation(s), and outcome including details including law enforcement reactions

Guess since you say so that means your own argument is BS

What I will tell you is that I was referring to force on force training using sims. Which you and I both know is what I was referencing as you stated that I was incorrect because you found a youtube video of a guy doing it for the first time and declaring that as proof that no one will use their sights. On top of that he was using his sights watch the video, he just did not remember doing it as that is part of the process the body goes through in fight or flight, hard target focus. Which btw is what I said, they would be used but not remembered.

Physiologically the body does a lot of things during a gun fight, some of which can be mitigated with training, some you cant. Its the same reason most people that have been in civilian gun fights cant tell you they saw their sights, how many rounds they fired or how long the gun fight took. Because you body it prioritizing functions to win the fight.

I have done plenty of force on force including sims and used my sights and so has everyone else. Which is what I stated. The only time some people didn't use their sights was the people picking up a gun for the first time and had not trained. They panicked

There is mountains of information on this google it, from more qualified people than me or a lawyer that likes guns and make youtube videos.

Which is why I stated get training, train and use your sights.

Shawn
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Thanks for the elaborate response. I must be mistaken, so you have not been in a home defense situation either, but I understand that you've been in training.

Physiologically the body does a lot of things during a gun fight, some of which can be mitigated with training, some you cant. Its the same reason most people that have been in civilian gun fights cant tell you they saw their sights, how many rounds they fired or how long the gun fight took. Because you body it prioritizing functions to win the fight.
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I know exactly what you mean. In an HD situation, you're scared, stressed, disorientated. That's why you need to rely on muscle memory more than taking the extra time to align the three dots, put it on your target, while he's moving left and right, ducking, throwing a mug while running at you. At 3-5 meters, if it's not point-and-shoot for anyone, I really suggest practicing this:

1.) Practice a consistent grip and have a good memory of how a good grip feels like
2.) Raise your pistol to eye level. Is the sight naturally aligned? If not, try again until it does
3.) Now do this with live round and recoil. It really isn't difficult to point and shoot a torso target at room distances.

Now any distance further away, you do need to slow down a bit and start using your sights. But unless your target is firing back, you have a few moments to spare to find the front dot. This is just my opinion and it all depends on your shooting experience.

All I'm saying, is that at close enough distance, you dont need to, nor have the time to use your sights. Therefore one must practice different ranges of shooting accordingly.
 
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This should be a separate thread. But remembering if you used your sights or not is less about whatever technique they used and more about the brains response to trauma.
 
Steiner said:
Noise is an interesting factor. Lets assume you discharged 2rds of 12g blanks...just for noise the noise factor. Intruder(s) exit and disappear. Plausible.
When police arrive, would you be charged for discharging a firearm even though the discharge was blanks?....nothing lethal there...just noise.
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First, it's not a good idea to threaten someone with an empty gun. If you felt the need to present a firearm to defend your safety, you had better be ready if someone were to call your bluff. If you escalated to a firearm, even an empty one, you've crossed into the projection of deadly force and that kind of force could be used on you in response. If you want to make noise, yell something to the effect of, "Get on the ####ing floor."

Next, if you pull the trigger and the gun does anything but click, it could be considered discharged from a legal standpoint.

On topic, the best HD option will be whatever you have the best and most training with. If you have done a lot of blasting with an M1 carbine and it's 100 percent reliable, use it. A World War confirmed that weapon will neutralize a threat. If you feel a need you need a more modern system, research, choose one and train. You can go non restricted rifle length and still move around a house, it just requires training. (and looking like a loon practicing in your house, close the blinds.) Or you can choose one of the bullpup options for a shorter package and train with it. I have owned a lot of the NR 5.56 options available to us in Canada. They will all do the job if you ask it to.

More importantly, think critically about how you would actually defend your home and those in it. My house layout isn't your house layout. The biggest space in my house is my main floor and everything else is stairs and hallways. The other end of the hallway out of my bedroom door is another bedroom. Not a good space to send rounds. My plan is to move to a bathroom facing the top of the stairs and sit there. This is five feet from my bed room door. This also makes my backdrop an exterior wall with me shooting downwards. Anything downstairs isn't worth my life. Or the life of a scumbag that came in to steal my crap if that's all he's after. I have no reason to think my house would be entered by anyone, it's just a thought exercise.

There's a lot to consider. The specific gun you choose is probably a way smaller concern than everything else. Go get some training.
 
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Still alive said:
A traditional .223 for home in NR will have the 18.6” barrel. It will be long and unwieldy if things go bump in the night. It will also be very very loud unless you store ear pros with your rifle.

But if it’s what you want, the only ones I can think off the top, that are short and NR are the bullpups, like the T97, X95, TAR-21 and Bushmaster M-17.

For your needs, I suggest a 12ga pump.
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It will also shoot loud, and shoot through your neighbors house.
 
A short shotgun; double barrel or pump. Noise? Use light target loads; even a dose of #9 shot will provide ample incentive for an intruder to F-off. If the intruders are 4 legged, including bears; 000 buckshot.
Non Lethal loads might be better for home defense if it is two legged you are concerned about; may be less chance of you ending up in jail.
 
Meroh said:
A short shotgun; double barrel or pump. Noise? Use light target loads; even a dose of #9 shot will provide ample incentive for an intruder to F-off. If the intruders are 4 legged, including bears; 000 buckshot.
Non Lethal loads might be better for home defense if it is two legged you are concerned about; may be less chance of you ending up in jail.
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You take the winner for the worst advice in this thread. Congrats.
 
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