Best Non-Restricted Black Rifle???

Whats Your Best Choice?

  • KELTEC RFB 308

    Votes: 38 5.9%

  • SWISS ARMS 223

    Votes: 139 21.4%

  • FNAR 308

    Votes: 8 1.2%

  • CSA VZ-58 223.7.62

    Votes: 73 11.2%

  • TAVOR 223

    Votes: 228 35.1%

  • FAMAE SG 542 308

    Votes: 39 6.0%

  • XCR-M 308

    Votes: 124 19.1%
  • Total voters
    649
00aught said:
What would happen with a tavor kaboom? Think you would be more hurt then if an ar blew up?
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I don't know the internal workings of the tavor but in a bullpup the action sits beside your face. in a conventional setup it sits in front so theoretically if an ar lets go, really bad scenario I can see the support arm being slightly injured and your firing hand to be less than happy. With a bullpup if it lets go it could mess up your face. Again all theoretical. I trust a tavor to not blow up beside my face. again that's just me.
 
Its why the SAR-21 has a kevlar plate in it. So if it goes boom you still look pretty at the end of the day.
I wonder if we will ever see a civilian version of it. Doubt it.
 
I'd weep for my busted rifle.

Really though: any gun that explodes is a bad time. I know there are a few FS2000s that have KBed over the years, but I never read about anyone needing facial surgery after.

I think I'm cautious enough not to feed my Tavor half-baked hand-loads or experiment with barrel obstructions, but at the end of the day I don't feel any less safe shooting it than any other rifle.

Anyone ever heard about the IDF having KBs? I haven't, but they're the guys who are pushing these guns to failing points. Your manual does recommend that after 8 magazines in a row on full auto fire to allow a brief period for cooling.
 
TV-PressPass said:
I'd weep for my busted rifle.

Really though: any gun that explodes is a bad time. I know there are a few FS2000s that have KBed over the years, but I never read about anyone needing facial surgery after.

I think I'm cautious enough not to feed my Tavor half-baked hand-loads or experiment with barrel obstructions, but at the end of the day I don't feel any less safe shooting it than any other rifle.

Anyone ever heard about the IDF having KBs? I haven't, but they're the guys who are pushing these guns to failing points. Your manual does recommend that after 8 magazines in a row on full auto fire to allow a brief period for cooling.
Click to expand...

Exactly, I remember a guy complaining about the XM8 project guns melting ...well duh after 6 straight 100rd Drum mags on full auto what do you think is going to start happening...
 
00aught said:
What would happen with a tavor kaboom? Think you would be more hurt then if an ar blew up?
Click to expand...

I've been on ranges (two now) where an Ar15 did explode and actually did the follow up detailed accident investigation on one of those.
It was a squib/very low powder load after we did the investigation. The projectile lodged in the barrel and did not cycle the action. User did an immediate action, extracted the fired squib cartridge case manually and loaded a fresh cartridge into the chamber of the now 100% blocked barrel and fired it.
The left side of the receiver swelled out badly and split open behind the barrel/chamber, the bolt took the brunt of it. The whole bottom of the bolt sheared right off, peeled back and bent down into the mag well. The magazine was blown out of the well and badly deformed. The ejection port area of the receiver deformed outward badly.
The user was not even scratched. Some powder residue in the face and a little bit of "warm gas" reported felt on the face.
Considering that .223/5.56mm cart cases are loaded with powder almost to capacity and due to the design of the AR15 an "out of battery" initiation of a cartridge is physically not possible, I would say that that is the worst case scenario failure that platform could experience. Depending on where your hand is on the receiver when you are firing the rifle it could lead to hand injuries but they would be minor based on what I've seen over the years. At worst a bad laceration.
I can't speak at all for the Tavor as I have no first hand experience on them or the design.
 
Great thread revival guys. I am happy to read about the Kevlar in the SAR-21. I take it no such similar protection exist on the Tavor or T97?

Moe
 
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Moe said:
Great thread revival guys. I am happy to read about the Kevlar in the Tavor for reducing injury in a KaBoom. This information coming to my attention at a good time as I was considering one.

Moe
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Moe, nobody said there was kevlar in the Tavor. The Sar-21 you are thinking of is the US Tavor. The Sar-21 we are speaking of is a bullpup from east asia.
 
Moe, the T97NSR does concern me. There is very little metal shielding the action compared to a Tavor which is a full alliminum chassis with 5 holes in it.

Those 5 holes are:
-where the barrel and gas system insert
-where the magazine inserts
-where the bolt carrier group is accessed from
-and where the bolt ejects on both the left and right side.

The main concern to me would be the ejection port cover on the side closest to your face, so if your a righty I would be talking about the left side of the rifle. The OEM port door cover of tin and polymer doesn't exactly inspire ANY confidence, while I feel the all aluminum offering by GHW may provide some additional protection.

It is also important to note that while I do have an understanding of this type of failure, I have neve experienced or witnessed one first hand, so to an extent I am just talking out my ass.
 
Of the choices available I chose the Swiss Arms but I wouldn't buy any of the rifle options listed. I've owned a few of them and shot most of the rest and consider them all a poor value for the money. Take away the non restricted tax and I might consider owning a couple of them again but not for what they sell for currently in Canada.

YMMV but that's one man's opinion.
 
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