Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
I don't see any of these agencies switching over to the XCR. The Swiss Arms is only 30% more than an XCR, which is very little in the grand scheme of things.
best nr black rifle?
- Thread starter Onagoth
- Start date
I don't see any of these agencies switching over to the XCR. The Swiss Arms is only 30% more than an XCR, which is very little in the grand scheme of things.
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
Value is relative. If you want the best, "bang for buck" can never be your top priority. If you wanted a decent rifle with some history of issues and good customer service from Wolverine should something go wrong, then the XCR works. If you want something with a proven track record that is used around the world by police/military, then the Swiss Arms is your only real option.
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
Stop eating fast food and work out
The money you save on fast food will pay for the gun and getting in shape will help with the weight of the gunAll jokes aside it does feel like a 7.62 gun.
If you're going to talk about Swiss Arms weight, you should really compare apples to apples. It has a 20" bbl and without the bi-pod, weighs about 8.6lbs. This is the same as an SL8 and only slightly heavier than a Colt HBAR (both with 20" barrels). The Swiss Arms carbine weighs 7.5lbs, which is about the same as most piston AR's. So yes, the Swiss Arms rifle is heavy, but only when compared to AR-15 carbines.
TV-PressPass
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Mountains, Alberta
Ahem *tavor* Ahem.
Ah hell. If I just say the same thing all the time there's no point in me saying anything!
Hmmm. . . .
BEST GUN EVER RIGHT HERE
Ah hell. If I just say the same thing all the time there's no point in me saying anything!
Hmmm. . . .
BEST GUN EVER RIGHT HERE
What are you looking to do with it? How many rounds do you plan on sending down range? what is the role of this rifle? Do you want fun plinker and not shoot a whole lot of volume? A kel tec su16 will get the job done, If you wanted to spend more money a benelli mr1 would do the trick but honestly won't yield any benefits, do you want big volume fire, and more reliability under nearly any condition? Then the only rifle that fires stanag mags reliably under hight volume that is non restricted is the tavor, but that comes at the cost of some wonky manual of arms. If you want to go to the field shoot 150 rounds before packing up, the su16 is adequate for the job.
- Location
- inside a huge cloud of MOSQUITOS
Well I have three NR black rifles, M96, XCR, and Swiss Black Special.
That being said, the only rifle I have never had a problem with is the Swiss. It is my go to rifle. The merits of this rifle need not be mentioned again here. Heavy schmevy. It really is worth the extra coin IMHO. Don't get me wrong, the XCR is a fine rifle, but the Swiss has it beat in fit, finish, history and reliability.
Cheers, YC
That being said, the only rifle I have never had a problem with is the Swiss. It is my go to rifle. The merits of this rifle need not be mentioned again here. Heavy schmevy. It really is worth the extra coin IMHO. Don't get me wrong, the XCR is a fine rifle, but the Swiss has it beat in fit, finish, history and reliability.
Cheers, YC
That is your opinion. Personally I think that the Swiss are way uglier then the XCR, and I would much rather have machined metal then plastic. And reliability, well I've seen videos on youtube of an XCR doing just as much as a Swiss without failing, So history.. yea there you got it. But like I said, it is all opinion.
Let the flaming begin.
Youtube videos of an XCRs performance doesnt really stack up to the torture testing done on the swiss/sig series of rifles..Im not biased, as I like both platforms, but the swiss has been proven more reliable than most every other service rifle out there. I cant see the XCR holding its own through testing like this.
http://www.biggerhammer.net/sigamt/550/550techinspection/
http://www.biggerhammer.net/sigamt/550/550techinspection/
The only thing I have seen done to the Swiss that I haven't done to the XCR is the freezing test, which is absolutely useless as I don't plan on using a weapon out of an ice block that I find frozen with a wooly mammoth. I would be interested to see more of the testing done to the Swiss that goes beyond others. If a gun can shoot after getting sand, dirt, and water in it, it is as reliable as I will ever need it to be. I cant find any videos on youtube of any Swiss torture testing, so other then that website you showed that is all I can go off.
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andrew3081
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
Tavor.
Nothing new on a subject that has been asked on a monthly basis.
Swiss Arm design has been around for more than 40 years, so they have plenty of opportunity to fix any problem that they have, yes they are expensive and it gets more so when you start updating to modern standards with rail handguard and AR lowers.
Tavor is design that is based on lessons Isreali's have learn from 50 years of continuous warfare, it is a compact bullpup design, easy to handle, but not a lot of people can change that easily to a different way of handling a rifle and customization to individual taste is very limited.
XCR is a marriage between AK reliability and AR modularity by a small and relatively new company with limited resources, but they are making strides in quality control and improvement overtime and they are backed by a Canadian distributor with impeccable track record.
Keltec rifles are designed with convenience and simplicity in mind, it is very light and meant to be a pick up and go rifle. because of that some people think they are cheaply made.
CZ or VZ is another old rifle design with a State sponsor development budget, simple reliable and in service with lot of countries around the world.
The MR1 is European design that tries to retain the traditional rifle ergonomics, it is targeted for a modern sporting market, but without the military or tactical connection while still try to offer some modern features like AR mags.
Do yourself a favor and set a budget, and pick a rifle that is close to that price, because all the rifles are more than capable doing the job. if you like it you can always sell it and buy something else or if you call yourself a true Gunnutz you will just end up buy all of them eventually.
Swiss Arm design has been around for more than 40 years, so they have plenty of opportunity to fix any problem that they have, yes they are expensive and it gets more so when you start updating to modern standards with rail handguard and AR lowers.
Tavor is design that is based on lessons Isreali's have learn from 50 years of continuous warfare, it is a compact bullpup design, easy to handle, but not a lot of people can change that easily to a different way of handling a rifle and customization to individual taste is very limited.
XCR is a marriage between AK reliability and AR modularity by a small and relatively new company with limited resources, but they are making strides in quality control and improvement overtime and they are backed by a Canadian distributor with impeccable track record.
Keltec rifles are designed with convenience and simplicity in mind, it is very light and meant to be a pick up and go rifle. because of that some people think they are cheaply made.
CZ or VZ is another old rifle design with a State sponsor development budget, simple reliable and in service with lot of countries around the world.
The MR1 is European design that tries to retain the traditional rifle ergonomics, it is targeted for a modern sporting market, but without the military or tactical connection while still try to offer some modern features like AR mags.
Do yourself a favor and set a budget, and pick a rifle that is close to that price, because all the rifles are more than capable doing the job. if you like it you can always sell it and buy something else or if you call yourself a true Gunnutz you will just end up buy all of them eventually.
