- Location
- Southern ontario
I have a cz it doesnt have the wow factor like a type 97 and it needs work to be reliable out of the box and the cz doesnt take optics well either.
best nr black rifle?
- Thread starter Onagoth
- Start date
I've shot numerous AR's, XCR's, an SL8-4 my AR-180B, and now my SA. I now own 2 piston AR's and a non restricted SA. When shopping I had to choose either $2000ish for an XCR or $3000ish for the SA. I'm glad I went with the SA, I've stripped each rifle and the build quality of the Swiss is so much better than any other. A high end AR is close but you just don't get the same feeling like the parts were perfectly machined to fit each other so precisely that it feels like it is on roller bearings. The SA feels like that. It is so smooth and tight. Reminds me of a really nice 1911 that has been perfectly fitted and just glides when you rack the slide.
There is nothing wrong with an XCR or any of the other options if you are on a budget and I'm sure it would serve any of us here just fine but if you want the "best non restricted black rifle" then in my opinion you want the Swiss Arms. If I had any experience with the Tavor I'm sure it would be up there along side the SA since I like bullpups and I can't recall hearing any negative reports on them.
Buying a rifle that has been or is being used in combat by armed forces for 20+ years does say a lot about a rifle. It means that country trusts that rifle with the lives of it's soldiers and hasn't found any reason to try something else.
Your right though this would be moot if they would just make the AR non restricted and let us carry them just like any other rifle. Affordable, reliable, plenty of parts and accessories, what's not to love.
There is nothing wrong with an XCR or any of the other options if you are on a budget and I'm sure it would serve any of us here just fine but if you want the "best non restricted black rifle" then in my opinion you want the Swiss Arms. If I had any experience with the Tavor I'm sure it would be up there along side the SA since I like bullpups and I can't recall hearing any negative reports on them.
Buying a rifle that has been or is being used in combat by armed forces for 20+ years does say a lot about a rifle. It means that country trusts that rifle with the lives of it's soldiers and hasn't found any reason to try something else.
Your right though this would be moot if they would just make the AR non restricted and let us carry them just like any other rifle. Affordable, reliable, plenty of parts and accessories, what's not to love.
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How do you know the type 97 is reliable?
OH SH!T! someone mentioned bullpup when TDC was around
Yes, YOU don't like bullpups because you can't reload as fast as an AR, YOU aren't as comfortable behind one, they suffer some mysterious tactical flaw that makes them unsuitable for combat even though they are being used by some armed forces groups (luckily we aren't going to war with these rifles here in Canada), and YOU can't be bothered to accept that there are ambi bullpups available.
Oh, and the T-97 when it eventually does show up can accept optics although I think that they will be so high that you will be lucky to get a good beard weld on the stock and they will be so high off the bore that you will have a huge variance in poi from 25-200yds.
It's ok not to like them but it's also ok to let others like them. I own a DTA SRS in 338L and an RFB and am on the lists for a KSG and T-97. I like them and what they have to offer to someone like myself using them for fun out in the bush, general blasting at the range and hunting.
If Canada is ever invaded I will be reaching to my Swiss Arms and my AR's but for fun I like the bullpups.
It isn't a new design, just a tweak to make it legal here. The Chinese military use a variant of it called the Type-95 which shoots a slightly different cartridge and of course has the fun switch enabled.
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
Same with the Ar180b.
I've owned 3 AR's, an SL8, an Ar180b, 2 VZ-58's and 2 Swiss Arms.
I currently have the 2 Swiss Arms and the SL8.
The rifles are all decent rifles, sure, some of them have their quirks, but far worse rifles have been made. I'm currently selling the SL8 (the rifle is fine, it's just not for me) and debating a 3rd Swiss or a Tavor (because Jay let me shoot his
).
IchBinEinSniper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brockvegas
Same with the Ar180b.
I've owned 3 AR's, an SL8, an Ar180b, 2 VZ-58's and 2 Swiss Arms.
I currently have the 2 Swiss Arms and the SL8.
The rifles are all decent rifles, sure, some of them have their quirks, but far worse rifles have been made. I'm currently selling the SL8 (the rifle is fine, it's just not for me) and debating a 3rd Swiss or a Tavor (because Jay let me shoot his
Ooooooooh...but the name remains?
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
Ooooooooh...but the name remains?
I didn't know how superior the Swiss Arms race was when I made it.
- Location
- Kamloops B.C
I have to say that's a beautiful rifle! what length of barrel is on it?
I own an XCR-L, I have had nothing but headaches with it. I do always trust it to fire, but the slide don't always lock back and I run 7.62x39 so the mags are a #####... they never feed right so you have to amass some great talent and luck to start a fresh mag with no jams. I am confident the 5.56 mags you want, would not suffer from this flaw. I took my XCR-L quadding recently and It got caked in mud and a large amount of the lube washed out of the internals. It would manually cycle the round, but the spring could not over come the dry friction to cycle as a semi auto (I came back here to point out that I did not try and raise the gas setting, it was jamming up on loading the round not ejecting it, maybe more gas pressure could have solved it?). Upon tear down I found almost NO dirt, mud, or debris in the internals. It seemed to me to just not able to fire with almost no lube inside of it. I have not retested it dry again and I have not had a fail to cycle since. take from that what you want... people can ##### at me and say I'm just a ####ty at maintaining it, but when I started that quad ride it was lubed and firing flawlessly, add in 7 hours of mud and water and it would not cycle, and had to have each round manually fed, using the charging handle. Maybe I was asking too much of it? if so its clear to see why no military uses it. If you want to plink with it at a range, its a great looking and ergonomic rifle. But at least in my experience having it strapped to your side in mud and water out in the bush, seems to remove its appeal, and the whole point of an NR in my mind is to take into the bush.
HO !!!!Any gun can do what they accomplished!! lol are you serious
i just want to prove, no loctite needed !!!
Full lenght.
My point is that it is a proven design and a version of it is in use with the Chinese military. Therefore it's probably pretty reliable. Plus this isn't the first time the T-97 has been in Canada, they were brought in years ago by Canada Ammo and were working well for those that had them before the RCMP fAcked everyone over and made it prohib. CanAm took a sh!t kicking over it and lost a huge amount of money on a shipment that was coming in as non restricted and was deemed prohib before it cleared the dock. They are still sitting there in the crates. The ones coming in are just a reworked version of that one that has been made Canadian RCMP friendly.
It isn't a Fammas copy. Just because it looks similar doesn't make it a copy. Supposedly the Chinese came up with this one on their own while developing a new rifle for their military.
I'm not familiar with the L85. Is that a variant of the SA80? Prohib?
Swiss Arms hands down..
If the Tavor would be a bit more accurate, I'd say it would be the better package but for $2800 worth not really.
Waiting for the Type 97 NSR to kick all these guys ass, bang for the buck who knows maybe they'll be king of the NR in this country.
Enough said..
If the Tavor would be a bit more accurate, I'd say it would be the better package but for $2800 worth not really.
Waiting for the Type 97 NSR to kick all these guys ass, bang for the buck who knows maybe they'll be king of the NR in this country.
Enough said..
It is a tight little package that's for sure. I agree with maybe a match or medium contour barrel and a better trigger system, it would make the top spot, or close in the Canadian NR category.
Yes because the chinese never copy anything right?
I would like to see the "reliability" of this to be demonstrated before I buy into it. Which wars has this magic rifle seen? Can't think of any can you?
Just because it is claimed to be in current service doesnt mean it is any good. Because the fammas really isnt that great, hence why the french are looking at ditching them. And honestly I find the tavor to be overrated, the israelis could have done better. The only bullpup I really ever liked was the aug. And that is prohib so out of the equation.
And yes the l85 is an updated variant of the sa80 and is one raging pile of ####.
And lets not talk about the black & decker f2.... I mean fn f2000
