best place for HMI/resizing dies

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browning525

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I tried using the search, but it seems to be focused on the "dies" part!
I have an old black-powder double rifle (.577-.500 no.2)that I am trying to make ammo for. I want to start with a .512 mold and get resizer dies to trial loads with .510 and .507 bullets.
The old "cartridges of the world" manual states that I should be using .507 bullets, but I have slugged the barrell and get .512. Thought I could maybe hedge by using .510, but willing to try all three if necessary to get it to regulate.
Any help with where-ever is the best place for the resizing dies would be greatly appreciated.
 
A resizing die is a pretty easy thing to make. I made several for my RCBS press. I bought a 7/8 fine thread bolt, cut the head off, and stuck it in my lathe. I bored it out with a 7/16 drill bit (45 cal muzzle loader), giving me a hole measuring 0.4375. Then I took a piece of 3/8 rod, split one end for about 2" on a band saw, so I could slip the end of a strip of emery cloth into the slot. I wrapped the emery cloth around the rod, stuck the other end in a 1/2" drill, and started honing the hole. I started out using 125 grit, then as I got closer switched to 250. If you are careful, you can get the die exactly the right size. Every time you have to change to a fresh piece of emery cloth, make it a bit longer than the last, so it is slightly bigger diameter, and fits tightly in the increasingly large bore. You can bore the bottom end out larger than the middle and top end, making it tapered and easy to size bullets. I got one so smooth that I could size paper patched bullets with the paper patch on, and not damage the patch. My bullets will slide down the bore with just the weight of the ramrod alone, which is exactly correct for the type of shooting that I do. The bolt cost $4. In your case, you are looking for .507, or .510, so start by boring the bolt out with a 1/2 bit instead 7/16. I can make one in less than an hour. You may have to find a friend with a lathe, otherwise it's easy.
I'm not sure I've explained this in a way that anyone else can understand. I could send you a few pics if you need...
Hope this helps.
Glen
OBTW, is that bore measurement groove to groove, or land to land?
 
You make it sound easy! I'll have to run this idea by some of my machine-shop buddies to see if they are up to helping. Personally I think it is out of my league, but I sure see what you are talking about! The measurements were groove to groove from a slugged piece of pure lead rammed through the barrel. The measurement of the lands was .500
Pics would definitely be appreciated, and I will send off a PM with my email adress. I appreciate the information.
Sometimes these projects end up being way more than about the cost. Items like these are just hard to find, no matter what the cost involved. Do-it-yourself factors just make it all the more worth-while when you finally pull the trigger.
 
if your barrel slugs .512" you may want a .513" or .514" cast bullet lee will make you a custom sizing die for bullets. as for reloading dies try CH4D they make dies for all sorts of odd ball cartridges since its .577 based you mite need a press that can take 1 1/4-12 dies most presses that have a bushing and are not quick change can take them
 
All you really need your machine shop buddies for is boring the .50 hole in the bolt with the lathe. The rest of it is easy, costs almost nothing, and you will end up with two things...a perfect custom sizing die, and the satisfaction of having made it yourself. It is, in fact better if you hone it out yourself, because you can hone it, run a bullet through, try in the bore of your rifle, then hone it some more, until you get it perfect. Or more likely, hone it once too often, get it too big, fling it off into the bush in a fit of rage, then try again. :) Might be a good plan to buy 2 bolts, and get your machinist to drill them both, just to save time. lol OBTW, how about some pics of your rifle? Envious CGNers would like to ogle.
 
Two bolts it is!!
Never been able to master the art of posting pictures, but if there is anyone out there with time on their hands, I would gladly email them the pics to post!?
 
If your barrel slugs at .512", try the Lee 515-450-F mould.
The one I had dropped a bullet slightly bigger than .515", and I would size/lube them in either Lyman's .509" die or their .512" die, depending on if they were intended for my 50-70 or my 12.7 X 44R.
You could cast them soft, hand-lube or pan-lube them and shoot them unsized as long as the loaded brass will chamber in your rifle.
I've since sold off those rifles, sizers, dies and moulds, but still have a few unsized, unlubed fairly soft bullets from the Lee mould around here somewhere.
You don't show where you are located, but if you are around Airdrie, AB., you are welcome to the .515" (+/-) bullets I have.
If they work, then that sorts out which mould you need and you may decide to skip the sizer die.
Regards, DaveF.
 
Dave, thanks for the generous offer. I may take you up on it yet, as I am only a few hours away, and travel to Cowtown on fairly regular basis.

Maybe I should pose another question here, as I really am a rookie in the whole world of casting my own, but how much variance(more so on the plus side) can I safely take without too much back pressure? Just for clarification, the slugged results were .500 on the lands, and .512 on the grooves. I would like to go with a nitro for black load recipe ( believe it is somthing like 40 % of black, using imr 4198), with either felt wad or dacron stuffer. The actual load is 5 drams ( 136 grains)of black powder.
 
Are you suggesting you might use 54 grains of 4198??? When was the rifle made? Please don't do that unless you can verify that it is strong enough to handle the pressure . There are others on this forum who are much more knowledgeable than I about this, and I am confident they will help you out. All I know is that old rifles and smokeless are bad medicine...
Glen
 
With a bore slugging to .512", there will be no problem shooting .515" bullets as the softish lead will easily swage down without causing any great difference in pressure. Again, you are using lead, which is very malleable.
As a rule I have usually sized bullets to .002 - .003" over bore size as a matter of course, with no problems encountered in either antique or modern made firearms.
With regard to reduced loads of smokeless to duplicate old black-powder loadings, it's either "No problem with that" or "Never even think about it !!" It's a personal choice.
I've never owned/fired anything in 577-500 No.2, but have owned and used quite a few antique and modern rifles in 45-70 and several other calibres, using both black and smokeless powder loads.
I have found 28gr. of IMR 4198 (40%) to duplicate original 45-70 load performance with 405gr. bullets, as well as being accurate and comfortable to shoot. I still use this load in a little, light weight 45-70 H&R Handi-rifle just because of those reasons. NOTE that this is a straight walled case, NOT a bottleneck like your .577-500 No.2.
With regards to felt wads and dacron fillers, again it's "Yes" or "No".
I quit using any wad or dacron with smokeless for fear of a 'ringed' chamber, and find that 4198 burns well, leaving a few traces of un/partially-burnt powder in the bore, but very little.
AGAIN note that I'm talking about straight walled cases and NOT a bottleneck like your .577-500 No.2.
You might want to go to the British Militaria forums to ask about your rifle, as there is a lot of knowledge there re. older Brit. rifles and sourcing needed loading items and recipes.
You might also want to go to the Cast Boolits forums for excellent general casting information, as well as discussions re. wads and fillers with smokeless loads.
I also see that 'Cartridges of the World' shows 37gr. 4198 with a 360gr. bullet for .577/500 No.2 Express.
The 'Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions' also show the same load, with a notation that it is a black powder cartridge from around 1883, but then references it as a 'Nitro Express'.
They both also differentiate this cartridge from the later (1905) and longer .577/500 Magnum Nitro Express.
Lastly, once you have everything set up to try, you might find that you need Lyman's mould # 515139, which lists as 340gr., and might be easier to regulate to suit your rifle.
Boy, it's a can of worms, but a really neat project. Good luck !!
Regards, DaveF.
 
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A 340 or 360 grain bullet is where I was thinking to go with this gun.
The 40% rule is commonly used among all the old double rifle fanatics, mainly in Australia and Alaska. This was researched on a couple of different forums. It would seem the latest "bible" of loading "The British Double Rifle" is the work of Graeme Wright, out of Australia. These old double rifles have a huge following, and I was surprised at the activity on various forums that offer guidelines for these!
I had researched the recipe for this load off of two different forums, both recommending the same load at 54 gr 4198. Never seen or heard of the Manual of Cartridge Conversions, before now. I may have to look into that one. I have three various versions of Cartridges of the World, none of which offered loads for "common" powders. As always, I am open to hear results from tried recipes.
My understanding of the wads of felt, and dacron, were not so much due to unburnt powder, but to maximize the burn rate in the cartridge itself. Many of these old guns were developed using the old cordite propellant, and offered way different rates of burn than granular powder. The use of wadding over the powder is supposed to offer a consistant burn.
 
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