Best Rifle of WW2, Par Deux
- Thread starter Alonzo
- Start date
i imagine the swedes saw the soviets as the bigger threat to them.
the swiss also shot down german planes that strayed into their airspace, i believe the swiss air force had Bf-109's that they had bought from germany. the allies also (mistakenly?) dropped bombs on switzerland (including zurich)as well as san marino (another neutral).
so WWII was financed by the swiss?
countries have to look after their own interests, and it would have been in neither sweden nor switzerland's interest to antagonize germany. switzerland cannot feed itself and has no coal/oil and at one point was surrounded by germany, italy, and vichy france.
also, it is called internment, not imprisionment, and this is what neutral countries are supposed to do according to the hague convention.
Dr.Lector,
The Swiss themselves have had to admit their wrong doing as far back as 1947 as Swiss Federal Councillor Max Petitpierre admited in 1947:
The Swedish did supply the Germans with the iron ore & allow safe access for German troop movements during the war, but I may have been too hard on them, they did help the allies at times as well (especially when it was about spying on the Germans).
Yes and they are also only allowed to punish the internees for a maximum of 30 days according to the Geneva Convention (the one that deals with the treatment of POW's) and the Swiss sent Allied Airmen to a concentration camp called Wauwilermoos they built for up to 7 months (which was in violation of the Laws of War as per the 30 day max sentence & as well as a violation of the Swiss Military code's 20 day maximum sentance) that was ran by a man named Andre Beguin who was a known Nazi that was expelled from the military originally in 1937 for illegal activity.
Dimitri
The Swiss themselves have had to admit their wrong doing as far back as 1947 as Swiss Federal Councillor Max Petitpierre admited in 1947:
The Swedish did supply the Germans with the iron ore & allow safe access for German troop movements during the war, but I may have been too hard on them, they did help the allies at times as well (especially when it was about spying on the Germans).
Yes and they are also only allowed to punish the internees for a maximum of 30 days according to the Geneva Convention (the one that deals with the treatment of POW's) and the Swiss sent Allied Airmen to a concentration camp called Wauwilermoos they built for up to 7 months (which was in violation of the Laws of War as per the 30 day max sentence & as well as a violation of the Swiss Military code's 20 day maximum sentance) that was ran by a man named Andre Beguin who was a known Nazi that was expelled from the military originally in 1937 for illegal activity.
Dimitri
Another Enfield lover here. Don't really wanna just rehash what's already been pointed out, but just wanted to say...
Other rounds being more powerful seems to be a moot point to me. 303 Brit is plenty powerful enough.
Mauser might be more accurate. It wouldn't surprise me. But that extra 1 or 1.5...Hell let's be generous, 2 MOA aren't going to help at all. Especially not with fugly sights mounted halfway down the gun. Seriously, if a guy was moving and/or shooting at ya, which sight can you draw a faster bead with? And the No 4 sniper rifles weren't exactly considered inaccurate either.
A 3 MOA shooting Enfield with the No 4's sights will let ya hit faster, when people are movin and coverin and not standin still for ya.
Claven seems to be the only guy so far who mentioned the interchangability in parts. Thanks to stuff like the replacable bolt head on the No 4 to set the headspace, I bet ya could get one repaired and back in the field a hell of a lot faster than a Kar 98k depending on what's wrong with it.
Oh, the different front sight heights for zeroing is cool too.
Other rounds being more powerful seems to be a moot point to me. 303 Brit is plenty powerful enough.
Mauser might be more accurate. It wouldn't surprise me. But that extra 1 or 1.5...Hell let's be generous, 2 MOA aren't going to help at all. Especially not with fugly sights mounted halfway down the gun. Seriously, if a guy was moving and/or shooting at ya, which sight can you draw a faster bead with? And the No 4 sniper rifles weren't exactly considered inaccurate either.
A 3 MOA shooting Enfield with the No 4's sights will let ya hit faster, when people are movin and coverin and not standin still for ya.
Claven seems to be the only guy so far who mentioned the interchangability in parts. Thanks to stuff like the replacable bolt head on the No 4 to set the headspace, I bet ya could get one repaired and back in the field a hell of a lot faster than a Kar 98k depending on what's wrong with it.
Oh, the different front sight heights for zeroing is cool too.
tinygnat219
Member
- Location
- USA, VA Red State Turning Blue
I am going to have to go with the Mosin Nagant, or the Carcano for the best rifles of WWII.
However, for the Enfield / Mauser debate. There is but one choice: Enfield. One can go on all day about the Mauser and it's design, but the Brits and Canadians were on the winning side armed with the Enfield. Hence, the Enfield wins.
However, for the Enfield / Mauser debate. There is but one choice: Enfield. One can go on all day about the Mauser and it's design, but the Brits and Canadians were on the winning side armed with the Enfield. Hence, the Enfield wins.
The bombing of Scaffhausen was a terrible "mistake" and the Yanks apologized for it.
But there must have been a message attached or something, because the Swiss stopped shipping completed anti-aircraft guns to the Germans. After that, they stuck with "spare parts"........ one of each part for a gun, all greased up and in a big box and carefully serialled...... and the assembly had to be done in Germany.
Early in the War, neither the Swiss nor the Swedish flak could hit a BF-109 but they could hit Hurricanes and Wellingtons. Later, as it became evicent just exactly who was gonna win, their aim got a lot better and they started missing Spits and Lancs and discovered that they COULD hit He-111s and 109s and 190s...... but that was getting close to the end of the war.
The Danes and Norwegians to this day hate the "slimy Swede"....... but how much choice did Sweden REALLY have????????
But there must have been a message attached or something, because the Swiss stopped shipping completed anti-aircraft guns to the Germans. After that, they stuck with "spare parts"........ one of each part for a gun, all greased up and in a big box and carefully serialled...... and the assembly had to be done in Germany.
Early in the War, neither the Swiss nor the Swedish flak could hit a BF-109 but they could hit Hurricanes and Wellingtons. Later, as it became evicent just exactly who was gonna win, their aim got a lot better and they started missing Spits and Lancs and discovered that they COULD hit He-111s and 109s and 190s...... but that was getting close to the end of the war.
The Danes and Norwegians to this day hate the "slimy Swede"....... but how much choice did Sweden REALLY have????????
if i was sweeden i would find more in common with germany than russia and switzerland had to play the game after all what else could they do and as far as i am concerned germany was a lesser evil than the soviets taking all the hard line boy loving nazis aside not only did some of the most respected commanders come from germany and her allies but also some of the best weapons, i respect the armies of Germany,finland,norway,and other axis armies on a strictly soldier point of view
ilovepotatos;1588850The Germans didn't need a 10 round magazine that would be lost or have problems with the rimmed cartridge...they used an internal 5 round clip that was a piece of cake to unjam. Did the cartridges jam? No problem. Just take a spare round and punch the release in the bottom. I can do it in under 10 seconds...I'm sure Hans could do it in half that.[/quote said:
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Ahh to hell with it, everyboby grab a pristine example of each & we all go to the range. Then two hours & several thousand rnds later(ohh the bliss of it), I think we will find out the best rifle for the occation is the one you have ammo for.
Rimmed ammo sucks if you think of the restrictions imposed on the design of the mag, bolt, chamber, (barrel), extractor, etc.
It was obsolete even in ww1.
The real reason it survived in some armies until relatively recently is the huge military stock in that particular cartridge - a paradigm, a sad one, like any paradigm.
It was obsolete even in ww1.
The real reason it survived in some armies until relatively recently is the huge military stock in that particular cartridge - a paradigm, a sad one, like any paradigm.
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Not quite right, the reason the rim survived is the huge stock of rifles chambered for it, and the cost and timelyness of replacement. The Brits were working on a rimless replacement.
Even so, the .303 British is still a very effective - if obsolete military - round, and the various versions of Lee Enfield are excellent battle rifles.
