Best Scope for F Class

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Stilig

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I'm just starting out in F Class and am trying to figure out what scope I should buy. I've spoken to several people and everyone has different thoughts and philosophies on the subject, trying to figure out how much power I need and what scope to get.

Initially I was thinking of the S&B PMII 5-25x56, then I was told that i need more magnification so i was thinking of the 8-32x56 NF now in speaking with some others i've been recommended the S&B 12-50x56., now i'm being told that the NF 5-22x50 is the way to go

All i can think of is how the hell can someone use a 50x scope? Wouldn't your reticle dance all over the place at that magnification? Wouldn't there be huge problems with mirage etc...??

Basically i need to know how much magnification i should use to shoot solid groups at 1000 meters , and does anyone have any recommendationson what scope to buy???
 
Palma guys will tell you scopes are for wimps. No scope will let you see impact points at that distance. It's more about the clarity and quality of the optics than the magnification. I've looked thru super high end x10 optics that were clearer than middle of the pack x30.

I'm switching over to a scope this year. Eyes getting bad and all. I decided for the Nightforce Benchrest. Seems to be the best bang for the buck.
 
F-Class is shot off of very steady rests and supports. The crosshairs don't move, that's how you handle 50X ;-)

Mirage isn't any worse with higher magnification scopes, it's just bigger. Most of the time mirage is your friend (it tells you what the wind is doing).

FWIW F-Class isn't shot out to 1000 metres. 1000 yards or 900 metres is the furthest distance fired in conventional F-Class matches.

I haven't shot any of the scopes you mention, but by reputation I understand that they are top gear. Still though, just because something is topnotch quality and very good, does not necessarily mean that it is right for you or that you will like it. For example, maybe there isn't enough scope adjustment (I don't know whether or not that's the case with the scopes you list, but it is surprising how many otherwise fine scopes have remarkably limited elevation travel; it is getting better though, slowly). Or, what kind of reticle you personally prefer shooting with (simple vs. "busy"; fine vs. coarse).

If you have enough money that you can afford to make a mistake or two, go ahead and buy any of those scopes (they are all topnotch stuff) and try it. If you learn that you have different preferences, presumably you can sell that and buy another.

Or if you can find some shooters who already have a variety of gear, see if you can try out their gear and develop an idea of what works well for you.
 
Thanks for the responses, i'm completely in agreement that the glass can make all the difference, i have a S&B short dot and it at 4x looks much better than many other scopes with much larger objectives and magnification. That's why i was thinking of the S&B to start.

So if i was to go with the NF 8-32x50 or 12-42x56 or the S&B 12-50x56 these would all seem to be good choices. I was thinking that i didnt' need that much magnification, iv'e found in the past when shooting my AR that often having too much magnification on my short dot would actually hinder my accuracy.

Is the glass on the S&B better than the NF? Would the min mag of 12x be too much for shorter distances on the S&B?

Thanks
 
Yes the S&B glass is considered top glass all over the world. I have used both and still have my S&B, I just plain like the view. You should try both and make up your own mind. The PM II is among the finest optics money can buy.
bb
 
Stilig said:
I was thinking that i didnt' need that much magnification, iv'e found in the past when shooting my AR that often having too much magnification on my short dot would actually hinder my accuracy.

Thanks
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Think of it this way.

You can always dial the power back if the mirage gets too bad (Have dialed my 12-42 NF back to the 24 power range in really bad mirage) but you can never dial up past your max magnification for those days when you can use it.

I very rarely dial mine back past 30-35 power unless the mirage is absolutely unmanageable but I use it's max power more often than not.

When using my .223 with my NF 5.5-22 I find I am trying to dial more magnification in when it is at full power already.
 
I know S&B to be exceptionally good, but the paradigm in F-Class is the 12-42X56 Nightforce. I agree completely with CyaN1de's comments. You cannot add power when you want it and need it. Those tiny .4 MOA short range targets look much better at 42X!!

You are obviously looking at quality and that is what counts. Stay away from cheap optics.
 
Looks like i have two options the S&B 12-50x56 or the NF 12-42 x56

$1600 for the NF, right away
$2792 for the S&B, four month wait

1100$ will pay for a lot of rounds, but i like quality which lasts. Money no concern which one would you guys buy?
 
If money was no concern then I would buy them both. Then keep the one I prefer and sell the other one. The nightforce would sell in a hearbeat. I have a 12x42 nxs and love it. Only complaint I have is the elevation is limited but it is on a 308 and what I have is ok.
 
Stilig said:
Looks like i have two options the S&B 12-50x56 or the NF 12-42 x56

$1600 for the NF, right away
$2792 for the S&B, four month wait

1100$ will pay for a lot of rounds, but i like quality which lasts. Money no concern which one would you guys buy?
Click to expand...

NF BR 12-42x56 Hands Down.....I have 3 and would buy another in a heartbeat. I don't think these are disposable by any means and I expect mine will last as long as I will and then some if you are worried about it "lasting".

I would say that 90-95% of the scopes at the US F-Class Nationals last month were NF scopes.

Others on the line that I noticed were March ($2500+) & S&B ($2800+) and probably a few others...
 
I will be competing with a Sightron SIII 10X50-60mm scope w/ FCH this season.

It has proven to be a very impressive scope.

With new coatings and great glass, you will be able to see with higher mag. Around here, mirage is horrid with conditions bad enough you can't make out the big black 5 ring using older gen scopes.

So far the various Sightron SIII's I have used, allow a much better view of and through the mirage. Mechanicals have been superb too.

These scopes are brand new to the market with the 10X50 only a couple of months old so longevity has yet to be proven. But so far reports from the US have been very promising and my limited experience so far has backed that up.

Given the massive backlog to get scopes, I would expect to see this scope show up in a lot of matches this season.

It is a scope designed with many features competition shooters want at a very reasonable price. Many will find the optics as good or better then the similar mag NF. Eye relief is massive especially for such a high mag scope. Very easy to use eyepiece with a nice wide field of view. 1/8 min clicks. Side focus that is quick to adjust allowing you to monitor mirage at various distances if desired. Much easier and comfortable to use vs a front AO. More then enough elevation for even the 308 to get out to common distances.

Reticle options are a Fine cross hair or target dot. Very useable reticles that many target shooters gravitate to.

I have not seen the high mag S&B's so can't compare but my past experiences have been very positive. But if they only have 1/4 min clicks, this will be a problem for fine adjustment on target.

Ideally, you will get behind the various scopes you are interested in and see for yourself.

Jerry
 
If you can afford the S&B, why even consider a lower model?

I'm just getting into F-class this year as well. In preperation for competetive shooting I topped my rifle with a NF 5.5-22X56. The best I can afford. And i love it!!!
 
Stilig please don't take this the wrong way. Please be assured that it's not meant as snark!!

You haven't said one way or another, but reading between the lines it sounds to me that you have not done much if any F-Class shooting (if so, I hope that you'll love it, in fact I expect you will, it's a great game).

As others have indicated, there are certain "no-brainer" setups. Everybody and his dog in F/Open is shooting a Nightforce scope on a 6.5-.284 rifle, including the winners (caveat, in the past couple of years the 6.5-.284 monopoly might be eroding). So there's nothing special or exciting about going with that known winning combination, and there may well be (there probably is) some other configurations that are in fact slightly better, perhaps. But there you go, that is the known-good winning combination. Using anything else is experimentation, which is not necessarily bad, but sometime experiments turn out to be a bit worse, sometimes a bit better.

I haven't heard of anybody shooting an S&B in F-Class, though I'm sure there likely are at least some (it's been a number of years since I shot F-Class). I imagine that they're almost certainly a wonderful scope and would do very well in F-Class. But even with the proviso of money being no object, it is possible that an S&B might be slightly less suitable for F-Class competition shooting than the Nightforce, either on an objective basis or on your personal needs and preferences. Not saying that it is so, just that by the time you get to such a high level of gear, the "better" scope (in some sense) is not necessarily better for a particular job.

If you want to buy now, sight-unseen, I would suggest that you go ahead and buy whichever one appeals to you more viscerally, based on your own personality and preferences. They are both top-line scopes. Even if you get the "wrong" one, it'll still be a fantastic scope that won't be holding you back in any manner. If you want the safe conservative approach of "I'm buying what all the winners shoot", get the same Nightforce that they use. If you want something more exotic, expensive, special or experimental, get the S&B.
 
Stilig said:
Initially I was thinking of the S&B PMII 5-25x56, then I was told that i need more magnification....
Basically i need to know how much magnification i should use to shoot solid groups at 1000 meters , and does anyone have any recommendationson what scope to buy???
Click to expand...
Your initial thought is right. I am not F class shooter just recreational LR enthusiast. I am using 308W Shultz & Larsen barreled Sportco 44 with straight power 12x Weaver scope and I can shoot 4" or so with 5 shots at 500yds
all day long if it is not to windy. 25x at 1000yds is plenty in my opinion. 50x power... whats next? astronomical telescopes? Even with 56mm obj at 50x there is only 1,1mm exit pupil, to small in cloudy weather! No matter what the "experts" will tell you, excelent glass at 25x will allways beat good glass at 50x.
 
gunrunner8 said:
Your initial thought is right. I am not F class shooter just recreational LR enthusiast. I am using 308W Shultz & Larsen barreled Sportco 44 with straight power 12x Weaver scope and I can shoot 4" or so with 5 shots at 500yds
all day long if it is not to windy. 25x at 1000yds is plenty in my opinion. 50x power... whats next? astronomical telescopes? Even with 56mm obj at 50x there is only 1,1mm exit pupil, to small in cloudy weather! No matter what the "experts" will tell you, excelent glass at 25x will allways beat good glass at 50x.
Click to expand...

....and superior glass at 50x will beat excellent glass at 25x.

25x at 1000yds (900m) is definitely usable but from someone who has "been there, done that" I prefer the higher magnification with superior glass.
 
Glass and coating have just taken a huge leap forward WITHOUT a massive upcharge in costs.

ALL brands will be benefiting from this tech. Question is how long before it filters through their product and for what price point these brands consider appropriate.

The common 'you get what you pay for' and 'only expensive optics are good optics' is really under pressure of changing. Now a scope will simply be based on how it performs and some will find spending more, nets less scope.

Yes, I sell these new gen Sightron scopes but I got into it cause I was simply blown away by how good they are. I compete and have no room for crap. Also, budget is enough to absorb whatever products I need to compete well.

Side by side comparisons with a lot of very expensive product reinforces my observations. There is some stuff on the market that really isn't worth the upcharge from the point of view of an F class competitor.

The up to 3 month backlog in the US is a pretty good indicator that alot of other shooters are pretty pumped about this new tech too.

Is it for everyone, absolutely not. The 10X50 is very narrowly targeting the F class and BR shooter (maybe not even some of them as the scope is pretty heavy).

I used to believe that anything over 24X was unuseable in my climate. I compared a whole whack of 36X scopes from Leupold to Weaver to bushnell to NF. Glass and coatings of the 80's to the early 2000's just didn't work in my murk.

I competed for several years with a 24X.

The last time out, I had my sightron happily dialed in at 50X and the ability to make minute changes on the target was very exciting. Being able to shade the scoring line on the new target is a bonus.

I figure 30 to 45X will be where it spends most of its time during the ugly months.

As for light transmission, field of view and ease of use, for such a high mag scope, it is easier/better then a variety of lower mag products of past. Eye relief is longer then on some hunting scopes - it is massive.

Until you get behind one of these scopes, you will not believe the changes that have occured.

We can now put affordable next to excellent competitive optics.

Jerry

PS for my LR plinking, I spend alot of time with my Sightron SII big Sky happily left at 20X. Will be putting a 8x32 on my 7RM extreme range plinker when the scope arrives. Different scopes for different applications. It's all good.
 
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