Best 'short barrel' cartridge?

Foxer

Foxer

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I've been thinking about a nice easy carry short rifle. Something with a handly little 18 inch barrel or the like, or maybe one of those 16 inch barrels ruger makes. I can't afford one at this moment, but i'm amusing myself by dreaming of next year's purcahses already :)

Now i know how most 'standard' cartridges perform in normal barrel lengths - but which ones suffer the most or least in a shorter barrel?

We all know that shortening the barrel means a little less velocity. So my question was - which cartridges give up the least performance in shorter barrels, but still have some good reach to them? It'd be nice to have something like a 7-08, or 308, or 30-06 or 300 wsm (or something in those classes) but which one will do best in a shorter barrel?

As a secondary question - is it better to go with a lighter bullet or heavier to get the best performance?

Anyone got any experince/theories/ideas?
 
idea - a 16" ruger compact 300wsm would give standard 30-06 velocity, and boot the #### out of ya

prices to be paid...
 
The long standing theory has been to use a shorter, or slower cartridge in a short barrel, since you woud be *wasting* a magnums potential with the short barrel.

But the truth is, all cartridges will lose some speed. And the shorter barrel will be louder.

Using a bigger cartirdge is gogin to increase muzzle blast, of course. And with a big cartirdge, it may become really obnoxious...:runaway:

And the recoil levels of a bigger cartridge ina lighter rifle will rise, too.

I'd stick to something based on a 308 case, and use a ighter premium bulet to boost speed withotu sacrificing performance.
 
They all suffer, but the .300WSM will be faster in both barrel lengths than the .308. I'd stick to a 18 inch barrel over a 16. The velocity for a .308 out of a 16' is aprox 100 fps better than a 20 inch 30-30 (150 gr). IMO a .308win, an 18 inch barrel and 150 gr bullets makes a nice light rifle:)
 
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You've really limited yourself by using calibers that rely on velocity and are missing out on the two best cartridges for carbines... the .44 Mag. and the .45/70!!
 
Have an 18.5 in. 788 remington in .308 Win..............150gr. Hornadys at 2745 fps....

125 ballistic tips at 2900 fps........accurate....short.......just a plain rifle!

Same loads in my 22 in. .308 .......about 125 fps faster.......

hs4570...........your mileage may vary
 
true north said:
The velocity for a .308 out of a 16' is aprox 100 fps better than a 20 inch 30-30 (150 gr)
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I highly doubt that

losing 25 fps per inch, a guy would see his 16.5" barrel 308 chrony top 150 gr loads at around 2600-2650 fps at the muzzle. A 30-30 is hard pressed to push a flat nosed 150 grainer to 2400 fps.


I believe a guy could be pretty happy with a short barrel'd 260, 7-08, or 308. 120, 140, & 150 gr barnes TSX respectively
 
1899 said:
I'd consider a .358 Winchester.
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that was going to be my suggestion....it pays to scroll to the bottom...:D

a 20" 358 on a Model Seven would be the next best thing to a 22" 358 on a Model Seven...or a 22" 350 Rem Mag on a Model Seven....:p :)
 
My go-to gun for the last 20yrs has been a 18.5"/.308 in Remington 760.

I personally wouldn't want a rifle shorter than that. They balance nicely at that length, but the shorter ones feel like a handgun with a buttstock.

They are loud, recoil does increase but then it's only a .308. Another factor is that with short bbls there is more muzzle flip and a scope with good eye relief is needed. I currently have a 1x4 Leupold on mine, but used a reciever sight on it for a few years as well. It was VERY handy w/o a scope. :)

I always shot 180 Hornadys in mine and for some reason I never shot it over the chrony. Probably better not to find out what it was actually getting, but at that velocity the 180s acted like premium bullets. I didn't recover many. Right now I'm using up a couple hundred 150sRNs in it. Recoil is alot less. After they are gone, I will switch to 165s.


.
 
Remington model seven in .308 short light and accurate. I also like the remington model 7600 carbine in 308 or 35 whelen. Then again the BLR is a good in 308 or 358. Also dont forget the Marlin Guide gun in 45-70. Iether bolt action pump or lever these are all good choices. Take care Tikka
 
Foxer, I have the rig that you mention in 7mm-08, Ruger Compact M77Mk2, stainless steel with laminated stock. Friends who've seen it refer to it as "###y". Last season it dropped two deer. A big mulie doe that I shot at 150 yds or so, did something I've never seen - flew straight up in the air like a rocket and came down very dead. The Hornady 139 gr. performed extremely well on both animals. Because of the short barrel, I did sacrifice velocity (2422 at muzzle), but mine shoots a .75" group. This year I decided to regain some velocity and loaded up some Barnes TSX 120gr. behind some Varget powder. You do need fast burning powder with the short barrels, mine now clocks 2700 fps with 43.5 gr. Amazingly, another 0.5 gr gets me another 100 fps for 2809. The grouping with TSX's is about 1.25" but I can probably tweak that down a bit more. I don't know how they'll perform on game yet, but I should know real soon. Anyways, that little rifle is a dream to pack, my wife's purse weights more than it does, they swing into action very fast. They look good, shoot well and are light. Mine is scoped with a Burris Fullfield II 3x9.
Oh, I don't think these things are made in 300WSM, I don't think that would be a good idea either. The compacts are available in .243, .308 and 7mm-08 I believe but could be corrected on that. I chose the 7mm-08 because I know it to be a inherently accurate bullet, it is a long time favourite of silhouette shooters. The recoil and noise of my compact is not an issue at all. the only draw back I would say is that if you approach 6' tall, the gun may be too small for you, I'm only 5'6" - so it fits well.
 
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The .35 Remington

By Chuck Hawks



The .35 Remington cartridge has periodically shown up in a modern bolt action, autoloading, or pump rifle, but its most consistent and popular home has been the excellent Marlin 336 lever action rifle. It is worth noting that in recent years the .35 Rem. has also found a home in single shot hunting pistols.

The factory ballistics for the .35 Rem. look like this: a 150 grain JSP at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2,300 fps and muzzle energy (ME) of 1,762 ft. lbs.; a 200 grain JSP at a MV of 2,080 fps and a ME of 1,921 ft. lbs. The 200 grain factory bullet is recommended by almost everyone, as a 150 grain .35 bullet has a poor sectional density. It sheds velocity fast and has limited penetration. Accuracy is also reported to be poor with the 150 grain bullet in many rifles.

For the reloader the .358" bullet selection for the .35 Remington includes 180 grain, 200 grain, and 220 grain bullets. I have used all of these. A number of medium burning rifle powders are suitable for the .35 Rem.

Here are some specifications of interest to reloaders: bullet diameter .358", maximum COL 2.525", maximum case length 1.920", trim to 1.910", MAP 35,000 cup.

According to the Speer Reloading Manual Number 13 the 180 grain flatpoint bullet (BC .245, SD .201) can be driven to a muzzle velocity of 1967 fps by 40.0 grains of RL-12 powder, and 2224 fps by a maximum load of 44.0 grains of RL-12. The 180 grain Speer bullet makes an excellent deer load, perhaps the best in the caliber.

The Speer Reloading Manual Number 13 also shows that the 220 grain flatpoint bullet (BC .316, SD .245) can be driven to a MV of 1721 fps with 35.0 grains of RL-12, and 1922 fps with 39.0 grains of RL12. These Speer loads used Winchester cases and CCI 200 primers, and were chronographed from a Marlin 336 rifle with a 20 inch barrel.

The 220 grain Speer bullet offers superior penetration for use on larger game. It is the bullet I would choose if I were to shoot an elk with a .35 Rem. rifle. At 100 yards it strikes with about 1,368 ft. lbs. of energy.
 
My father had a short barrelled 270, It was painfull to shoot, even at game. (ears).
My best chices have already been mentioned. You said you wanted reach, so I'd lean heavily towards the 308.
If you can go a bit fatter, the 358 will likely do better in a short barrel given it's larger bore size, and thus room to burn.
If it were me though, I'd forget about trying to shoot long range with a short barrel, and get a 45-70.
 
gitrdun said:
Foxer, I have the rig that you mention in 7mm-08, Ruger Compact M77Mk2, stainless steel with laminated stock. Friends who've seen it refer to it as "###y". Last season it dropped two deer. A big mulie doe that I shot at 150 yds or so, did something I've never seen - flew straight up in the air like a rocket and came down very dead. The Hornady 139 gr. performed extremely well on both animals. Because of the short barrel, I did sacrifice velocity (2422 at muzzle), but mine shoots a .75" group. This year I decided to regain some velocity and loaded up some Barnes TSX 120gr. behind some Varget powder. You do need fast burning powder with the short barrels, mine now clocks 2700 fps with 43.5 gr. Amazingly, another 0.5 gr gets me another 100 fps for 2809. The grouping with TSX's is about 1.25" but I can probably tweak that down a bit more. I don't know how they'll perform on game yet, but I should know real soon. Anyways, that little rifle is a dream to pack, my wife's purse weights more than it does, they swing into action very fast. They look good, shoot well and are light. Mine is scoped with a Burris Fullfield II 3x9.
Oh, I don't think these things are made in 300WSM, I don't think that would be a good idea either. The compacts are available in .243, .308 and 7mm-08 I believe but could be corrected on that. I chose the 7mm-08 because I know it to be a inherently accurate bullet, it is a long time favourite of silhouette shooters. The recoil and noise of my compact is not an issue at all. the only draw back I would say is that if you approach 6' tall, the gun may be too small for you, I'm only 5'6" - so it fits well.
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Also comes in 260 cal. I have 3 Compacts 308,7-08 & 260.I will be buying the 243 & 223.Thats is why I am down sizeing.DAN>>>;) :D
 
I just picked up a Tikka T3 Battue in 30/06 from a member here on the board. I wanted something shorter and lighter for hiking up and down the thick stuff here in the West Kootenays. Not much flat ground where I hunt and I always seem to be walking through the thick stuff and my current rifle
( M700 SPS in 7MM Mag with a 26 inch tube ) seems really cumbersome. I don't much give a hoot about velocity because I don't/can't shoot past 300 yards anyways. No practice at ranges past 300 yards so I limit myself to 300 yards as my absolute max under perfect conditions. I plan on using 180 Accubonds for everything from deer to moose!
 
Levi Garrett said:
The .35 Remington.........
The Speer Reloading Manual Number 13 also shows that the 220 grain flatpoint bullet (BC .316, SD .245) can be driven to a MV of 1721 fps with 35.0 grains of RL-12, and 1922 fps with 39.0 grains of RL12. These Speer loads used Winchester cases and CCI 200 primers, and were chronographed from a Marlin 336 rifle with a 20 inch barrel.

The 220 grain Speer bullet offers superior penetration for use on larger game. It is the bullet I would choose if I were to shoot an elk with a .35 Rem. rifle. At 100 yards it strikes with about 1,368 ft. lbs. of energy.
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+1.

There are some guys who are now making 220gr +P loads, which is a 220 to 2200 ft/s. Essentially, loading a .35rem to 30-30 pressures.
 
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