Best way to learn how to shoot "controlled pairs" ?

Well in modern times we have learned to see as fast as we pull the trigger..
1 38 1.97 19.2893 40.0000 100.00 33 Harrison, Pat
 
Pat,
right on ...
"Well in modern times we have learned to see as fast as we pull the trigger.."

I wondered when someone would call me on my sentimental ravings about the good ol days, when men were men, Colt .45 Govts ruled the earth, and a lonnnnng shot in an IpSc match would be 20 yds.

The question is ...
Can you pull the trigger as fast as the slide resets it?? or are you waiting for the pistol to catch up??
[;{)
 
Tell ya what, I'll bring the timer...lets find out who can pull the fastest.
Without a timer...well you could just have a dirty/crappy gun.
 
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:rolleyes:
Lazerus2000 said:
When I first started shooting Irritating Pipples Squabbling Constantly, back when it first started here in Canuckistan, I fell into the clutches of a world class competitor named "Machine Gun Al Page", who tutored me in that elusive "Double Tap or DT
[DT not to be confused with Delerium Tremors ...
although they do have some similarities when you are first experimenting with either].

Way back in the stone age of IPSC [ 1980s to you whippersnappers ] we defined a DT as one sight picture, TWO quick shots ...
straight from Ol' Col Cooper's words, hisself ]

MG Al started out on the Brownig Hi Power and eventually saw the light [ IPSC rules make it so that minor SUCKS big time ], so he switched over to a Colt Govt Model in .45 = MAJOR!

Ok fine.

Just one problem ....
Al [ and eventually MOI ] found we were double tapping so fast, we could actually beat the slide and disconnector on a stock Govt. So this forced us to slow down to the point where our Double Taps were more like what you all are calling "doubles"= two AIMED shots.

This was strictly a requiremnt of the physics and mechanics involved ... not because our scores/times were all that much better [... especially on the quick and dirty short stuff that those old iPsc matches used to have]. ... back before the gamesters took over, and the true warriors all got their asses kicked [ unless you cheated a lot ].

This was a problem begging for a solution, so when I built my full race .45 comp guns, I lightened the slide considerably, and kept a FULL powered recoil spring. Most other gunsmiters of the day were building with stock slides, and very very light recoil springs.

Then we started shooting with Team Detonics ... who thought 3" barrels and NO SIGHTS were the way to go for REAL men. The Detonics Combat Master, with its shortened and ultralight slide, is about as fast as you can get for Q & D / CQB. This impressed me to no end, and I even shot my way into Canuckistan B class with one, and shot a Nationals with one.

It is a manly thing to beat a race gun ... ANY race gun ... with a Detonics Combat Master shooting 230 Gr Hornady Fp bullets, with a PF o > 200.
Yep.
MANLY!!
It puts the capital P right back into IpSC, eh what ...
even if you never get to take home any tin from the matches.

SO, I have to disagree a bit ...
to me a double tap should NOT be snoozing and waiting for the gun to catch up with you.

At least, not if you have the right gun/load/comp shooter combination.
At least not if you have the slightest interest in Capital P shoooting.

Of course,
as with any opinions expressed on the internet,
your personal mileage may vary.
[;{)
LAZ 1
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I am calling BULL $hit. you were NOT out running your slide. You were most likely pinning the trigger.

If you and Pat are willing I would like in on how fast one could pull the trigger. Of course I would be shooting my little girly 9mm major gun not a manly gun like you :rolleyes:
 
I'm willing to go to Windsor :D...hmm, or I'll be in Barrie this weekend, Brant the next and Burlington the following :D
Hell I'll bring my racegun and my Stock .45...splits are about the same anyways
 
You can call bull#### all you want .... me [ and most of the hot shooters I knew back then on the Left coast, back in the 80s and 90s, ] were capable of outrunning the slide on our Govt models if we went as fast as we could on the hoser stages.

Maybe we were just more manly way back then??
Or maybe back then the stages were just shorter range= more realistic= more Practical ... with a Capital P??

Some of the Team Detonics guys didn't even have sights, so the question of two sight pictures or one sight picture seems pretty well moot. And at the Q & D stuff, they did make their point.

PS: What is a timer ... is that some new fangled invention??
Back in the day we made do, for the Man on Man shoots, with a stick, two balloons, and a spent case inside the balloon.

And it was upfill BOTH ways walking to the range.
[;{)
LAZ 1
 
You can call bulls**t all you want .... me [ and most of the hot shooters I knew back then on the Left coast, back in the 80s and 90s, ] were capable of outrunning the slide on our Govt models if we went as fast as we could on the hoser stages.

Maybe we were just more manly way back then??



So you and " most of the hot shooters from the left coast in the 80's and 90's " are better than Rob Leatham , Eric Grauffuel.
When I saked eather both said that the could NOT out shoot there guns.
Maybe you and your budy's should grab your "manly " guns and go show them how it is done :jerkit:.

Pat love to have down to Windsor. You should come down for our level 2 match first weekend of December. Maybe we can pull out the timmers for a beer. Sorry can't make Barrie , Brant or burlington, Hunting season.
 
Murray Gardner told me he was running into that before he switched to the wide bodied Tanfo (about a million years ago) in 9 major. Personally it's not a problem I've owned, but Jerry Miculek says a revolver is mechanically faster than an auto for that reason - and pretty much proves it.

PS he didn't say the shooters here were better, you can miss at incredible speeds - those guys hit at incredible speed.
 
Well I've shot on the super squad at the Pan Ams with Jerry, and if you think he can pull a revolver fast, you haven't seen him shoot a 1911.
 
Pat love to have down to Windsor. You should come down for our level 2 match first weekend of December. Maybe we can pull out the timmers for a beer. Sorry can't make Barrie , Brant or burlington, Hunting season
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Sounds cool, I might try to make that. Is it at the the Sousies (spelling) place? Been a long time since I shot down there. Joe is the rep right?
 
Slavex said:
don't bear down, relax and let the front sight guide you.
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Slavex hit the ten ring with this one. I found when I relaxed more, the gun would return to the natural sight picture faster then when I tried to force it. The front blade just comes back to zero and press again.

I remember clearly the first fast pair that grouped together in the "A" zone. It was defiantly an "AH HA" moment. :)
 
PH Racing said:
Sounds cool, I might try to make that. Is it at the the Sousies (spelling) place? Been a long time since I shot down there. Joe is the rep right?
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Pat this is Joe.
Phil is the rep this year. Phil , Mike and my self are the only ones that are willing to do the job so we keep switching back and forth.
And yes to your question it is the Sousies range.
 
MDG would be one of those guys who were capable of outshooting the slide ....
a million years ago I was squadded with him at the Canuckistan Nats.

And Ian in Vic is correct ... "you can miss at incredible speeds - those guys hit at incredible speed".

While I was occassionally as quick as DOC on a few stages, he had the hits to back it up, and I didn't ...
except on the really close stuff.
[;{)
LAZ 1
 
In order to pull the trigger before the slide closes you need to beat .06-.07 seconds. The truth of the matter is their is no way to validate this since none of those guys are at the same level as they were back then. Plus the GAME's gear and techniques are light years ahead of the early '80's. On close targets you don't even need a first sight picture for a "DT". That' will get you through the weekly bull#### matches, but if you want to play with the big boys then there is always some sort of sight awareness for every shot. you can't call a shot if you have no idea where the front sight was when you broke the shot.
I thought I was pulling the trigger before the slide closed once, then I realised that the dissconector was worn down.

I want in the split times for beer if you come down to sin city
 
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