Best you've ever done with your M14 pattern rifle for consistent accuracy
- Thread starter Ardent
- Start date
Oh, that wasn't me. It was the gun. Haven't you heard the antis? These things are pure death and destruction, liable to just spontaneously go off and deface currency, etc..
not speaking from experience. i can't get less then 4" group at 200m, prone unassisted (edit - iron sights).
but... you have to remember that the m14 wasn't intended to be a long distance sniper type rifle. just a regular battle rifle. witch only need to achieve 6" - 8" at 200m. i have heard, that is part of the reason the u.s. army went from a semi (nm m14 platform / m21) back to a bolt action (rem 700 platform / m24). inconsistant accurcy of the m21 (m14 hand picked, nm+ mods). wassn't that great as a medium - long distance sniper rifle. i think, one of the big reasons was the scope mount. they have come up with better designs but there all basicly a upgraded a.r.t. scope mounts. some thing to do with the side screw and recoil if i recall. not 100% sure on that. then again, i guess it wasn't all that bad. isreal and the u.s. still use them as platoon level med distance rifles. do they not?
if any one has any info on that, i would love to know. i tried twice to make a copy of a m21 / greater accurcy. once about 15 years ago, with a springfield standard nm. second time with a norinco. never achieved perfection either time. but admittedly i had great success with both in shrinking my grouping with iron sights.
i gave up on chasing the dragon lol, so to speak as my interst was or is just plain military rack grade firearms and proficent operation and handiling. probably from when i was reg force cadre for the "bisley cadets" one summer. all of you that shoot at distance for accuracy are amazing. i could barely see the target at 300 let alone hit it. think i did but nothing that resembled a grouping lol.
but... you have to remember that the m14 wasn't intended to be a long distance sniper type rifle. just a regular battle rifle. witch only need to achieve 6" - 8" at 200m. i have heard, that is part of the reason the u.s. army went from a semi (nm m14 platform / m21) back to a bolt action (rem 700 platform / m24). inconsistant accurcy of the m21 (m14 hand picked, nm+ mods). wassn't that great as a medium - long distance sniper rifle. i think, one of the big reasons was the scope mount. they have come up with better designs but there all basicly a upgraded a.r.t. scope mounts. some thing to do with the side screw and recoil if i recall. not 100% sure on that. then again, i guess it wasn't all that bad. isreal and the u.s. still use them as platoon level med distance rifles. do they not?
if any one has any info on that, i would love to know. i tried twice to make a copy of a m21 / greater accurcy. once about 15 years ago, with a springfield standard nm. second time with a norinco. never achieved perfection either time. but admittedly i had great success with both in shrinking my grouping with iron sights.
i gave up on chasing the dragon lol, so to speak as my interst was or is just plain military rack grade firearms and proficent operation and handiling. probably from when i was reg force cadre for the "bisley cadets" one summer. all of you that shoot at distance for accuracy are amazing. i could barely see the target at 300 let alone hit it. think i did but nothing that resembled a grouping lol.
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I think a MOA challenge should be started
Rules: rifle must be an M14/M1A type. All makes models, optics and accessories allowed.
Video footage mandatory
1 clean target down range @ 100 for each 5 shot group.
Camera should be on and rolling continuously from target placement to target removal. Target should be held visible as it is walked directly into close up view of the camera.
I'm up for the challenge, Rugerman and I have talked about this very topic and concluded it would be the only way to satisfy the "internet".
Whaddya think?
I'm in!
I have an early 80's Springfield Nat'l Match that performs well at matches and practice. I can't remember sitting down behind a bench, shooting group after group to see how it would agg though.
My rifle tends to shoot better at longer ranges than close. MOA wise my groups at 500m are better than at 100m.
So for this challenge should there be a time limit? I think so. I mean I could sit all day at 100m on the bench with my wind flags out waiting for everything to line up perfectly. A time limit per 5 shot group would add a sense of realism to the test and shooting against the clock IMO is more enjoyable. 5,7,10 mins? Any thoughts?
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well each rifle is a different story. I loaned a very early imported Polytech M-14S to Fat Tony & he used it at a TR match at Bull Meadow. (loaded one round at a time) Using surplus South African ball ammunition he placed only four points behind the most novice shooter present. And this most novice TR shooter was using a Swing International IIRC.
This M-14S rifle has minimal headspace btw. Now at 800 meters things started to fall apart score wise. But he shot very well enough earlier with this combination at the closer distances. No, it's not a TR, but this rifle comes close as being about the most accurate service rifle I've ever seen myself with Fat Tony's guideance.
This M-14S rifle has minimal headspace btw. Now at 800 meters things started to fall apart score wise. But he shot very well enough earlier with this combination at the closer distances. No, it's not a TR, but this rifle comes close as being about the most accurate service rifle I've ever seen myself with Fat Tony's guideance.
Talk about reviving a great necropost.
I don't see any vids and pics posted for the challenge so I'd like to propose a simpler format following those in the precision rifle forum.
Here goes some proposed rules for Challenge 1 (if we get a good turn-out we can try a harder challenge):
- Making it "easy"...the challenge is 5 groups of 5 rounds each with max. group size of 1.5" from 100 yards or meters, same set of paper, no extra holes, no coverups
- groups must all be shot at the same session, from the same M1A pattern rifle (any make, any mods)
- poster must include pic of target with group measurements and a standard size reference (calipers measring a group or ruler in the target pic)
- date of shoot, location, pic and description of rifle should also be included
So do we have any takers?
I don't see any vids and pics posted for the challenge so I'd like to propose a simpler format following those in the precision rifle forum.
Here goes some proposed rules for Challenge 1 (if we get a good turn-out we can try a harder challenge):
- Making it "easy"...the challenge is 5 groups of 5 rounds each with max. group size of 1.5" from 100 yards or meters, same set of paper, no extra holes, no coverups
- groups must all be shot at the same session, from the same M1A pattern rifle (any make, any mods)
- poster must include pic of target with group measurements and a standard size reference (calipers measring a group or ruler in the target pic)
- date of shoot, location, pic and description of rifle should also be included
So do we have any takers?
I have a document here from the US military which explains how to accurize an M14. That document specifies the standard of accuracy for 3 consecutive 10 round groups at 300 yards is 6 inches. That same document goes on to say the ammunition being referenced in order to achieve this standard is capable of 3.5 inches at 300 yards which basically means for the rifle to qualify it must in a perfect world be capable of shooting 2.5 inches at 300 yards. You could convert that to just under 1 MOA.
Bottom line is that at 100 yards (according to this standard) you should be able to shoot 1 moa if you do the right stuff.
Now... have stated the above I have a ton of cash in my LRB including the JAE stock and heavy Krieger barrel. Mine shoots 3/4 moa most of the time with 155 SMKs. But that is "most of the time". It does on occasion throw a flyer which opens the group to about 1.25 MOA. I have not yet made any effort to resolve this flyer issue but I think I have a bead on the issue.
FWIW, I have also read some very good articles on the quality of the current offering of M14 barrels that claim to be air gaged which are actually sub par to the barrels that were actually produced during the hay day of the m14.
Bottom line is that at 100 yards (according to this standard) you should be able to shoot 1 moa if you do the right stuff.
Now... have stated the above I have a ton of cash in my LRB including the JAE stock and heavy Krieger barrel. Mine shoots 3/4 moa most of the time with 155 SMKs. But that is "most of the time". It does on occasion throw a flyer which opens the group to about 1.25 MOA. I have not yet made any effort to resolve this flyer issue but I think I have a bead on the issue.
FWIW, I have also read some very good articles on the quality of the current offering of M14 barrels that claim to be air gaged which are actually sub par to the barrels that were actually produced during the hay day of the m14.
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I'm in for the revised challenge. I've been thinking about the original challenge for a long time, hence the bump. There just doesn't seem to be a practical time to do it. I know, lame excuse. I will accept the revised challenge and do my best to post a vid of the original challenge to get that ball rolling for those who are keen. I had my SA Nat'l match out recently and it was grouping around MOA at 500 meters. Will it group MOA'ish at 100 5 times in a row? We shall see. I love this ####!
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Mumbles Marble Mouth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland
I just blast the target and then take a zoomed up close picture of the best 3 shots and then claim its a 1 moa rifle.
I'm thinkin' that I might be able to do the challenge with my pretty stock Norinco, and one of the guys at the range just brought out his Blackfeather'd National Match which was shooting close to MOA with some old reloads - not even loaded for his M1A.
I also see Hend, Brutus and BadAsmo with some high end gear and think that this might be doable by more people than we might expect.
Tomo - Let's give it a few weeks and see what turns up, it is supposed to be a challenge after all.
I also see Hend, Brutus and BadAsmo with some high end gear and think that this might be doable by more people than we might expect.
Tomo - Let's give it a few weeks and see what turns up, it is supposed to be a challenge after all.
Mumbles Marble Mouth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland
Awesome.
凸(`д´)凸
Ah, OK then - I know my Norcs can't do it but I have a as yet unfired SAI National Match which I'd planned on leaving iron sighted but which could be scoped for this game and my M25 from LRB is on its way to IRG for importation and so that may also be a contender. Still tough for this platform t achieve five times out of five though.
live4therut
CGN frequent flyer
I've done it before with witnesses so doing it again with a camera rolling shouldn't be a big deal to accomplish. My under 1.5" groups weren't done with $400 norc's I'll tell you that much.
Oh but isn't the Internet full of sub-moa Norcs ? I smiled when the Savage Fanboys - whose rifles always shoot '1/4 MOA all day' - were conspicuously quiet when some of us shot the challenges posted on the precision rifle forum.
