big bore and felt recoil
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I shoot a lot of 45-70 and I don't find the stouter loads too bad at all. Mind you my rifle is an older Marlin with a chunk of hard leather for a "recoil pad" so Its no fun off of the bench after a while. Not bad at all standing etc. BTW, I'm 5'10 1/2" and about 210lbs.
The 45-70 though is launching heavy bullets in the 2000 ft/sec area. More of a push to the recoil as they say rather than a snap. The 378 Weatherby is a whole other ball game. Heavier bullets with a lot of velocity. I've shot full house 375 H and H loads and they get your attention. The 378 is quite a bit more of an animal. It will boot the #### out you.
Not recommended for all but those that can easily and enjoyabley take a lot of brute strength and snappy recoil!
The 45-70 though is launching heavy bullets in the 2000 ft/sec area. More of a push to the recoil as they say rather than a snap. The 378 Weatherby is a whole other ball game. Heavier bullets with a lot of velocity. I've shot full house 375 H and H loads and they get your attention. The 378 is quite a bit more of an animal. It will boot the #### out you.
Not recommended for all but those that can easily and enjoyabley take a lot of brute strength and snappy recoil!You're going to get enough advice to keep you shoveling for a week.
As far as I'm concerned, the dominating factor in felt recoil is stock fit....and about 97% of shooters are using stocks that don't fit.
The second factor is weight. The greater the mass, the less the felt recoil.
It's that simple - a lesser caliber, in a light rifle that doesn't fit you will hurt like hell.
A big bore, in a stock tailored to fit you, won't be bad at all, and the heavier it is the less you'll feel it.
I'll illustrate this with a little story. I once had an M-65 Tikka in .338 Win.
Mag. Now, I'm not exactly a little guy, but that thing made my eyes go fuzzy every time it went off....I was down right scared of it. A friend of mine came a long, and wanted to buy it for his wife! She was about 5'4", and weighed maybe 100 pounds soaking wet. I told him he was nuts, but after lots of cajoling (it was a very pretty rifle, after all!) I decided that if she tried it...if she could put three rounds through it without physical harm... that I would sell it.
She did...and kept right on shooting it! It fit her, and she loved it, and she shoots it to this day. I still cringe every time I see it.
At the same time, I have a Sako L61R in .338 that has been chopped and channeled down to less than 7 pounds. It's my peep sighted, never-out-of-my-reach truck gun. Everybody else looks at it like it's the reincarnation of a Govt. mule, but I can shoot under an inch with it all day, off the bench, prone, any which way at all....simply because it fits.
As far as I'm concerned, the dominating factor in felt recoil is stock fit....and about 97% of shooters are using stocks that don't fit.
The second factor is weight. The greater the mass, the less the felt recoil.
It's that simple - a lesser caliber, in a light rifle that doesn't fit you will hurt like hell.
A big bore, in a stock tailored to fit you, won't be bad at all, and the heavier it is the less you'll feel it.
I'll illustrate this with a little story. I once had an M-65 Tikka in .338 Win.
Mag. Now, I'm not exactly a little guy, but that thing made my eyes go fuzzy every time it went off....I was down right scared of it. A friend of mine came a long, and wanted to buy it for his wife! She was about 5'4", and weighed maybe 100 pounds soaking wet. I told him he was nuts, but after lots of cajoling (it was a very pretty rifle, after all!) I decided that if she tried it...if she could put three rounds through it without physical harm... that I would sell it.
She did...and kept right on shooting it! It fit her, and she loved it, and she shoots it to this day. I still cringe every time I see it.
At the same time, I have a Sako L61R in .338 that has been chopped and channeled down to less than 7 pounds. It's my peep sighted, never-out-of-my-reach truck gun. Everybody else looks at it like it's the reincarnation of a Govt. mule, but I can shoot under an inch with it all day, off the bench, prone, any which way at all....simply because it fits.
Yes, stock fit is very important. However all things being equal I'm afraid the .338 win mag is in another category. Stolen from Chuck Hawks: http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
338 win mag: 250gr @ 2700ft/s equals 33 ft/lbs of recoil
378 weatherby: 300gr @ 2900ft/s equals 71.1 ft/lbs of recoil
A fair comparison IMHO, similar rifle weights ( 9lbs for the 338 10lbs plus for the wby) and heavy bullets for calibre, loaded to near max....
338 win mag: 250gr @ 2700ft/s equals 33 ft/lbs of recoil
378 weatherby: 300gr @ 2900ft/s equals 71.1 ft/lbs of recoil
A fair comparison IMHO, similar rifle weights ( 9lbs for the 338 10lbs plus for the wby) and heavy bullets for calibre, loaded to near max....
The 378 weatherby is one hell of a round. It will push a 270 grainer as flat as a 300 win mag will fire a 150 grainer. Don't let anyone bs you. THEY KICK! If you are not allergic to recoil you will have no trouble with one. If you are the least bit recoil shy, stay the hell away from it. A flinch is real easy to aquire and very hard to lose. A 340 weatherby might be a more viable option for you, and it will stop anything on this planet. A 375 h&h is another option to consider. I sold 3 of them, and loved every one of them.
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
The key I find is try and turn a kick that hurts into a push.
Weight of firearm , heavy better
Weight of bullet, lighter better
Powder , slower,is better
Design important , fit important, recoil pad important
Posture while shooting important
Optics , eye relief important , get rid of any chance the scope will burn you.
Practice also important , up/down and level shooting
Frank
Weight of firearm , heavy better
Weight of bullet, lighter better
Powder , slower,is better
Design important , fit important, recoil pad important
Posture while shooting important
Optics , eye relief important , get rid of any chance the scope will burn you.
Practice also important , up/down and level shooting
Frank
I own and shoot some hard kickers, up to a 505 Gibbs.20+ yr. ago I bought a Wby 378 at a gun show in Minot. It came with a box of factory loads less one. Couldn't wait to get at it. After the first shot I got my sh!t together for the second. Flinched so bad I don't think I hit the dugout bank.That said, the stocks on the MKV don't fit me well. Sold that thing after 2 shots. At about the same time I rechambered a #1 from 45-70 to 45-120. Every time I pulled the trigger I got a nosebleed, but could still put all 5 into the black 4" at 100 yd. I sold that one as well but not because of flinch factor. With the 378 too many things were going on. Poor stock fit,medium heavy bullet exiting at high velocity and a loud muzzle blast all contributed to my not being able to handle the rifle. I would suggest that you try one before you buy as you may be able to shoot it well, only you will know.
FWIW I am shooting 500gr.bullets from 505 at 2300 with no prob. Serious recoil but not painful. Good luck with your venture. Mark
FWIW I am shooting 500gr.bullets from 505 at 2300 with no prob. Serious recoil but not painful. Good luck with your venture. Mark
Yes, stock fit is very important. However all things being equal I'm afraid the .338 win mag is in another category. Stolen from Chuck Hawks: http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
Indeed it is - but I also shoot (1) .416 Rigby and (1) .458 Win Mag (and three .375 H&Hs) in complete comfort, because I took the trouble to put them in stocks that fit me.
When you go to buy a jacket, there's a whole bunch of different sizes and lengths - because people come in different shapes and sizes. Look at a rack full of Remingtons, Rugers, or Weatherbys...and every one is the same drop, cast off, and length of pull. At best, they're going to fit about 5% of the people who buy them! That doesn't mean much if it's a .243, but if it's a .416 Rigby it's going to be damned uncomfortable for most folks.
Indeed it is - but I also shoot (1) .416 Rigby and (1) .458 Win Mag (and three .375 H&Hs) in complete comfort, because I took the trouble to put them in stocks that fit me.
When you go to buy a jacket, there's a whole bunch of different sizes and lengths - because people come in different shapes and sizes. Look at a rack full of Remingtons, Rugers, or Weatherbys...and every one is the same drop, cast off, and length of pull. At best, they're going to fit about 5% of the people who buy them! That doesn't mean much if it's a .243, but if it's a .416 Rigby it's going to be damned uncomfortable for most folks.
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TUmbleweed, one of the reasons she was able to shoot the gun and not feel the same recoil as you was her weight.
I tried to understand why my little cousin could shoot ANYTHING you gave him all day long, (3 inch HV steel loads, 6.5lb 300 WM, literally anything you would give him until the shells ran out)
He was a small kid about 120 lbs, and I figured out why he could shoot it without ill effect.
Big guys like you and I have a tendancy ot absorb recoil. Too much mass to accelerate behind the gun= most of the energy being absorbed into the shoulder. Yet a youngin, woman, or small stature man with the proper technique can shoot all day long, and not feel the recoil like you and I do. Because they roll with the recoil, and their upper body accelerates with the gun. If you think back to her shooting it, or have her shoot it again, notice the amount of upper body movement she has when she pulls the trigger. My littel cousin rolls from the hips back and his whole upper body moves under recoil. Keep in mind, the kid is an excellent shot too!
Stock fit is very important, but I dont think the stock fit her better than you on the 338, I think her way of shooting it is less abusive to her than yours is to you if you understand what I mean.
BTW, a 378 is alot more gun than most can handle... Unless your building a heavy rifle, or braking it, it will hurt...
I tried to understand why my little cousin could shoot ANYTHING you gave him all day long, (3 inch HV steel loads, 6.5lb 300 WM, literally anything you would give him until the shells ran out)
He was a small kid about 120 lbs, and I figured out why he could shoot it without ill effect.
Big guys like you and I have a tendancy ot absorb recoil. Too much mass to accelerate behind the gun= most of the energy being absorbed into the shoulder. Yet a youngin, woman, or small stature man with the proper technique can shoot all day long, and not feel the recoil like you and I do. Because they roll with the recoil, and their upper body accelerates with the gun. If you think back to her shooting it, or have her shoot it again, notice the amount of upper body movement she has when she pulls the trigger. My littel cousin rolls from the hips back and his whole upper body moves under recoil. Keep in mind, the kid is an excellent shot too!
Stock fit is very important, but I dont think the stock fit her better than you on the 338, I think her way of shooting it is less abusive to her than yours is to you if you understand what I mean.
BTW, a 378 is alot more gun than most can handle... Unless your building a heavy rifle, or braking it, it will hurt...
A friend of mine who had shot a .378 Wby in a Mk.V tried my Remington Classic Safari in .416RM. He said the .378 was much more uncomfortable to shoot. He tried my rifle with 350gr and 400gr loads. The advice about stock fit and weight of rifle is good, and worth heeding.
Guys, I think this 378 thing has been blown way out of proportion. If you haven't shot big guns before or lately and you go out get all tensed up and squeeze one off expecting it to tear your head off, it probably will. Last weekend I shot my 378 and 416 Rem. side by side. The 378 had 300 TSXs going 2850 fps the 416 had 350 Speers going 2650 fps. To be honest the hard but on the Sako AV seemed to hurt worse. 416 weighs 8 7/8 lbs the 378 is 9 3/4 lbs. 110 grs. powder in the 378, 84 grs in the 416. Niether full power. I think my .416 Rigby #1 kicks worse and my old 460 was way worse. HAHA on icehunter.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Darryl has a good point, big guys do tend to get pounded more. It's Newtonian physics. A large object {you} are harder to move than a light person, therefore, more of the recoil is absorbed within your frame.
There is a certain technique to big bore shooting as well. Learning to roll with the recoil, and not try to withstand it for starters.
I agree wholeheartedly on the stock fit too.
There is a certain technique to big bore shooting as well. Learning to roll with the recoil, and not try to withstand it for starters.
I agree wholeheartedly on the stock fit too.
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Go to a proper gunsmith and get measured. Barring that, place the butt in the nook of your elbow of your shooting hand. Your hand should rest comfortably, without any stretching or tightening on the the pistol grip/ wrist of the stock, with a finger on the trigger.primus1 said:
Thats sort of a minimal thing though, then there is neck, head, etc. If they are out of allignment shooting can be very unpleasant.
As for big VS little and felt recoil, pish tosh. For every person who says lil folks absorb it well by 'rolling' with the recoil, you will find one who says bigger is better. 6 of one, 1/2 a dozen of another.
- Location
- calgary alberta
Fitting a stock to a person "properly" is something gunsmiths do. I have had many clients who have rifles "fit " to them by store experts, and still ##### about getting beat up.
Stock fitting is a bit of an art, and is something that can mean the difference between having a boomer you can shoot all day and 1 that you can only run a few rounds through at a session.
Heavier set people absorb more recoil than light set 1s, the gun pushes the light 1s around far more than a big fellow will be. My 13 year old 80 lb daughter will shoot my 50s all day as long as there is ammo, yet hates my wifes 06.
I test fire every rifle I work on, and I hate test firing the 378s as typically the Weatherby stocks do not fit me at all, and they beat the #### out of me.
I build and shoot 50s , LOTS! I am not aware of many rifles that have a worse reputation for recoil, unfortunately most of the reputation can be shoveled and is best used in a garden.
True big bores have a different recoil effect than mid caliber magnums like the 378s and like.
I find them to be far more ferocious than true big bores, I think mostly due to the differences in operating pressures, I find big bores are more of a shove on the shoulder than the kick of a big magnum
Stock fitting is a bit of an art, and is something that can mean the difference between having a boomer you can shoot all day and 1 that you can only run a few rounds through at a session.
Heavier set people absorb more recoil than light set 1s, the gun pushes the light 1s around far more than a big fellow will be. My 13 year old 80 lb daughter will shoot my 50s all day as long as there is ammo, yet hates my wifes 06.
I test fire every rifle I work on, and I hate test firing the 378s as typically the Weatherby stocks do not fit me at all, and they beat the #### out of me.
I build and shoot 50s , LOTS! I am not aware of many rifles that have a worse reputation for recoil, unfortunately most of the reputation can be shoveled and is best used in a garden.
True big bores have a different recoil effect than mid caliber magnums like the 378s and like.
I find them to be far more ferocious than true big bores, I think mostly due to the differences in operating pressures, I find big bores are more of a shove on the shoulder than the kick of a big magnum
1899 said:That sounds a bit high.
I mean, can't you shoot cast bullets at a reasonable cost?
The greatest cost is the brass, followed by the bullets!
A lot cheaper then buying loaded cartridges though, they are last I saw, US$90.00 for five!!
