Big Woods rifle conundrum - 358 Winchester and 7mm-08

Cause it doesn't say________________?????? ;)

There is varying degrees of effectiveness derived from names:

Magnum
Improved
Ultra
Express
there are others

Also found that metric something/something BY something(ie 6.5x55)Typically yields better ballistics and penetration.

Going to add another spin like Boomer has.

7-08 140gr - 2700-2900 ft/sec
7RM 140gr 2900-3100+ ft/sec

Just averaging , bear with me, how much difference will the animal know?

Just think of the performance you would get from a 7-08 Magnum or a 358 Ulta Express. ;)

Those who know use them, those who don't , well they just don't know.Most folks that say something is incapable usually don't use that item.I say usually.



Boomer said:
Normally I side with the big bore choice, but lets look at this another way. Would you shoot an elk with say a 160 gr Partition in a 7mm magnum? It seems to me the big 7s have a pretty good reputation as elk slayers. If so, why would the 7-08 loaded with the same bullet be a mistake, the lower impact velocity should actually increase penetration, ditto a 140 gr TSX.
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Kelly Timoffee said:
Going to add another spin like Boomer has.

7-08 140gr - 2700-2900 ft/sec
7RM 140gr 2900-3100+ ft/sec

Just averaging , bear with me, how much difference will the animal know?
Click to expand...

There is the crunch... the energy derived from the "Magnumization" of a cartridge only comes into play at the extreme margins of its effectiveness... either expressed in distance or shot placement... personally I don't take shots that fall within those margins, and so Magnums serve no useful purpose for me...
 
Didn't read the whole thread, so if I'm repeating what someone else said, sorry.
.
In the last 30 years or so, hunting bullets have come such a long way that caliber choice is no longer as crucial as it once was. Buy the absolute best bullet available for you caliber, and a 7-08 will humanely take down any animal that walks in North America. Ideally, reload and use the best projectile you can find. Paying $1 or more per bullet may seem like a lot, but when you think that the whole outcome of your hunt depends on that little hunk of metal... You can also get factory loads with some very good bullets. Again, $3-4 per shot is cheap when compared to what the season costs you. In most cases, sight in with cheaper ammo, and fine tune with the good stuff. You can check zero every so often with cheap stuff.
 
If people actually knew how far those margins actually are they would be a bit surprised when they saw it in the field.

hoytcanon said:
There is the crunch... the energy derived from the "Magnumization" of a cartridge only comes into play at the extreme margins of its effectiveness... either expressed in distance or shot placement... personally I don't take shots that fall within those margins, and so Magnums serve no useful purpose for me...
Click to expand...
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
If people actually knew how far those margins actually are they would be a bit surprised when they saw it in the field.
Click to expand...

IMO and IME the bulk of wounding loss comes from shots taken within those margins, either extremes of distance or shot placement (ie. an animal at extreme quartering away or quartering on etc...)...

To stretch the point if a 7mm-08 @ 300 yards has equal energy as the 7mm RM at 400 yards... shots from 0-300 yards should be perfectly effective for those advocating 400+ yard shots with the 7 RM (pretty much every mag shooter posting on CGN)...

I choose to hunt... not shoot... I physically close the distance to slam dunk range... (largely archery gear @ sub-20 yards)... and when I take the shot it is on a properly postured animal that is primed to receive the projectile to the "bread basket."
 
IMHO, for the vast majority of hunters (say, 90%), maximum practical hunting range is 300 yards. Any longer than that, you really have to know your gun, ballistics, how to read wind, exact range, and so on. All come into play to a very significant level. Now, for a lot of people, those are not overly tough, but for the guy that takes his gun out at hunting season, fires a shot at an oil can in the pit to see if it still shoots OK, if he even does that, 300 is a very, very long shot. And within 300 yards, any of the 308 class calibers (7-08, 6.5 X 55, 308, '06, 270, 7mm, and so on) will kill anything in North America, with a proper bullet and good placement.

Years ago, a buddy of mine bought a BAR in 7mm Mag. He had a high-end Leupold scope, in the 4-12 range on it. I was using a H&K G3 with the combat sights. I could consistently outshoot him at 350-400 yds. I would have put a lot more faith in my 308 in my hands than his 7mm in his to humanely kill a critter.
 
Papaclaude said:
... 300 is a very, very long shot.
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Well, yes and no.

I'm 65, and I am pleased every time I hit the 18 inch gong, suspended 300 yds away, at out local range .. using a scope and a bench rest.
My 22 yr old son hits that gong, reliably, offhand, using an SKS and iron sights .. and yesterday he hit it, offhand, with my 1954 Winchester .30-30 with iron sights.

But all of that pales in comparison to that young 30-something feller who visits occasionally - he hits it reliably too, offhand, using his long barrel .357 magnum revolver.
(the RCMP guy who regularly shoots at the range said: "Thank goodness that young man is law-abiding").

Now as for the killing power of a 7mm-08:
Two years ago, my son used a 7mm-08 to shoot a 3x4 buck, at 200 yds; the 140gr bullet hit the deer in the 'boiler-room' and it went down instantly, like it was pole-axed.

*shrugs*
 
-Savage- said:
Well, yes and no.

I'm 65, and I am pleased every time I hit the 18 inch gong, suspended 300 yds away, at out local range .. using a scope and a bench rest.
Click to expand...

I do the same but I shoot off-hand, sit, use a pack or shooting sticks as them shooting benches at the range look like they would be rather awkward to drag around in the brush. ;) :D
 
Papaclaude said:
IMHO, for the vast majority of hunters (say, 90%), maximum practical hunting range is 300 yards. Any longer than that, you really have to know your gun, ballistics, how to read wind, exact range, and so on. All come into play to a very significant level. Now, for a lot of people, those are not overly tough, but for the guy that takes his gun out at hunting season, fires a shot at an oil can in the pit to see if it still shoots OK, if he even does that, 300 is a very, very long shot. And within 300 yards, any of the 308 class calibers (7-08, 6.5 X 55, 308, '06, 270, 7mm, and so on) will kill anything in North America, with a proper bullet and good placement.

Years ago, a buddy of mine bought a BAR in 7mm Mag. He had a high-end Leupold scope, in the 4-12 range on it. I was using a H&K G3 with the combat sights. I could consistently outshoot him at 350-400 yds. I would have put a lot more faith in my 308 in my hands than his 7mm in his to humanely kill a critter.
Click to expand...

Exactly!! Apart from a lot of BS you hear sitting around the table at the camp(and a little on here) 300 yards(UNDER FIELD CONDITIONS SHOOTING AT GAME) is a long shot. A lot different than shooting at gongs at the range as well. You are excited/out of breath/in a poor position/rushed etc. If you walk the back end of clear cuts here in N.B. you will find the results of indiscriminate blasting at far off deer. And most of these shooters DO NOT practice at long range and think hot ballistics is the answer for everything.
 
-Savage- said:
Well, yes and no.

I'm 65, and I am pleased every time I hit the 18 inch gong, suspended 300 yds away, at out local range .. using a scope and a bench rest.
My 22 yr old son hits that gong, reliably, offhand, using an SKS and iron sights .. and yesterday he hit it, offhand, with my 1954 Winchester .30-30 with iron sights.

But all of that pales in comparison to that young 30-something feller who visits occasionally - he hits it reliably too, offhand, using his long barrel .357 magnum revolver.
Click to expand...

Impressive. :rolleyes:
 
-Savage- said:
Well, yes and no.

I'm 65, and I am pleased every time I hit the 18 inch gong, suspended 300 yds away, at out local range .. using a scope and a bench rest.
My 22 yr old son hits that gong, reliably, offhand, using an SKS and iron sights .. and yesterday he hit it, offhand, with my 1954 Winchester .30-30 with iron sights.

But all of that pales in comparison to that young 30-something feller who visits occasionally - he hits it reliably too, offhand, using his long barrel .357 magnum revolver.
(the RCMP guy who regularly shoots at the range said: "Thank goodness that young man is law-abiding").

Now as for the killing power of a 7mm-08:
Two years ago, my son used a 7mm-08 to shoot a 3x4 buck, at 200 yds; the 140gr bullet hit the deer in the 'boiler-room' and it went down instantly, like it was pole-axed.

*shrugs*
Click to expand...

Agreed. However, I don't think you are like the average shooter I mentioned - the guy that fires one or two rounds a year, if that. Some guys I know have had the same box of ammo for 20 years. Some of those guys go out, buy a 300 WM or Ultra Mag and figure they can drop a moose at 5 miles. They're the ones I mentioned for whom a 300 yd. shot is a very, very long shot.
 
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