Bipod question

powdergun

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For shooting long range from a bench or prone what works best:

1) A heavy front rest
or
2) A quality bipod mounted on the gun

I know it is probably personal preferance but I wanted to know what most of you are using. ( recreational use only no formal competitions in my future for now)

Thanks
 
I remember I had that question once when I did long range and the guy told me that while bipods are very handy and many are well designed when the rifle recoils there is always some skittering or chattering along the ground by the bipod legs which is inconsistant from shot to shot. A proper sand bagged rest where the rifle forearm is allowed to slide easily back on the sand bag is more consistant from shot to shot and consistancy means accuracy. In fact he said that many put baby powder on the bag so the rifle will consistantly and easily slide back with every shot. Sounds like there might be some logic to this although I haven't tested this out myself to see if there's a difference.
Perhaps others on this forum have tested this out??
 
Hi Powdergun,
It really comes down to what your comforatable with. I fired one of Popurhedoff's sniper rifles and on the first shot managed to take the primer out of a 12 gage shell at a couple hundred meters (from a bipod, sitting). That is not because I'm so good, that is because his rifle is "perfect". I am haveing a custom sniper rifle built as we speak. It will be totally custom fitted to me and I will fire it from a bipod, because that is what I am comfortable with.
Try different things to see what you like.

Just a thought
Steve
 
Buy what works for YOU (not all the other great CGNutters out there) and of course , your budget. And finally your choice must be consistent with the rules of the game(s) that you shoot: F-Class, Tactical Rifle, Precision Rifle, Field Shooting (unknown distances), yada, yada, yada.

Most of all, enjoy the hobby!
 
So, I'm not sure bipods are all they're cracked up to be... after reading the first bit of this thread, I went to the range to experiment...

To start, both groups are 20 rounds from 100m prone (with my left hand supporting the butt into my shoulder both times)... the rifle is a Savage 12FV with a Bell and Carlson Medalist composite stock (which is fantastic compared to the factory one by the way). The bipod I used was a VersaPod that adjust the leg lengths and also allows you to cant the rifle to ensure it's level. It has the rubber feet not the metal ones...

The ammo was .223 Rem Winchester USA 55gr FMJ ($0.26/rnd from Marstar), not the best, but it's what I had...

The targets are 1" big squares and 0.5" little squares...

Here's what it did with the bipod:
img039.jpg


And then I took off the Bipod (including the base) and just used a plain old sand bag (the kind that the CF uses... the green plastic ones, not leather or anything fancy)...

Here's the difference...
img038.jpg


So, I'm not sure about this...

Why is there a difference... is it because the rifle recoils better with the bag... is it a quality of bipod problem? Is it a harmonics thing where the system happens to have better vibration without the bipod? The rifle shoots other ammo much better even with the bipod... now I'm wondering if I should try the sand bags alone with other types of ammo and re-think which brands it likes best?

Any input?
 
Changing the support style can influence grouping and you may have to work on your technique.

Rifles which recoil less like the .17 Mach IV are less influenced. I did a bit of practice at 300yds - rest verses bipod and fund no difference in this instance.
 
It has to do with degrees of freedom and vibration dampening. A sandbag generally will not restrict movement (if it's not packed too tight), so when the primer fires and the powder ignites, and the bullet slams into the lands, it all sends a vibration into the rest of the firearm. The vibration will travel much faster than the bullet. The stiffer the rifle, the less dampening effect and the faster the vibrations will travel and reverberate back and forth through the gun.

The rifle has inertia, so it takes energy to move it's center of gravity (CG), generally the heavier it is, the more energy it takes to move the CG (moment arm is also a consideration).

When the rifle is sitting on a soft sandbag and the vibration starts down the rifle, the sand will displace as the gun is free to move downward when a vibration pulse hits the part of the rifle sitting on the sandbag, i.e. the gun would rather not move it's center of gravity when it's easier to move the sand(conservation of momentum).

When a bipod is used, the downward freedom of movement is restricted, so when the pulse hits the part of the rifle sitting on the bipod, the bipod does move as easily downward, and the pulse ends up kicking the CG upward. Hence the dreaded bipod bounce - it generally follows that the stiffer the rest, the more bounce you will get (springy bipods complicate this point).

In the end, bipods are best on soft ground, not on hard benches as the soft ground will absord the pulse like the sandbag.

Other factors that aggravate the bounce is spring in the stock, so stiff is ok, but the dampening effect of the rest is what is really important.

Jay
 
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So are there any tricks to minimize the motion of the bipod and stop it from bouncing around... I did notice that I had a much better sight picture at follow through with the sand bag than with the bipod...

Can you adjust the bipod (ie make the friction less for the canting) to minimize the jumping?

EB
 
powdergun said:
For shooting long range from a bench or prone what works best:

1) A heavy front rest
or
2) A quality bipod mounted on the gun

I know it is probably personal preferance but I wanted to know what most of you are using. ( recreational use only no formal competitions in my future for now)

Thanks

If we go back to the original question on what works best, I doubt very much if you will find a bi-pod on a rifle at a BR match. While long range F Class shooter will sometimes use bi-pod, I would guess about 95% or better used a front rest at the last World Long Range F Class shoot. I wasn't there so maybe Kajfes can jump in here.
 
Jay, that was a great write-up

Ruthless, thanks!

So are there any tricks to minimize the motion of the bipod and stop it from bouncing around... I did notice that I had a much better sight picture at follow through with the sand bag than with the bipod...

EB, I consider the whole system similar to a car moving down the road, the car's road vibration is dampened by the spring/shock system. So if an enterprising person wanted to create the ultimate bipod, simply use that system (take advantage of Detroit's engineering) and build a bipod that uses some sort of mini coil spring / shock absorber system in it's legs.

Jay
 
I'm playing around w/ putting a piece of 5/16" anti vibration mat under the feet of my Harris. It really seems to help w/ bounce. The rifle weighs around 16lbs, so that certainly helps too. The problems I forsee is what is going to happen when I'm not shooting off the nice smooth packed sand at my range. I'm thinking about cutting a piece of the mat to fit inside a frisbee. Not benchrest perfect, but a vast improvment.
 
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