Bird Shot in your Home Defense Shotgun

[TSherback]

"Thats some house you got there. Longest straight shot in my house is 35 feet, and that is through two open doorways that aren't normally open, and are made of solid wood when closed. "

Actually my house is a pretty standard 1980's style rancher with opposing hallways that go from one end of the house to the other and the house is about 70ft long, if I stand at the doorway of my bedroom it may reduce that about 14ft...just under 20yds.

 

[TSherback]

Ideally, I'd rather use non lethal means of self defense. Just enough to keep my family safe, nothing more or less. Birdshot is a step up from a running tackle lol.

This I don't understand, it's like people who carry a shot gun for bear defence and have bird shot as their first round. Why? If I am in a position where I need to discharge a fire arm to stop something threatening my life sorry I'm not going to try and injure it.

 

[Suther]

You know Cameron, I can't help but think Bill Burr is onto something, especially here in Canada where 22lr have no mag limits and where the majority of criminals doing things like B&Es don't have firearms. 25rds of 22lr is nothing to scoff at, I sure wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that, the relatively low noise, muzzle flash, and recoil ensures you have the best chance of not disorienting yourself... Although it's probably more lethal through drywall than #9 shot, and I too have a house full of other people I don't want hurt.

 

[Big Bad]

My grandpa used to always tell us the time he caught his neighbor stealing chickens. Old single shot 12g with rock salt to his arse stopped him.

Please don’t take this as a slight towards your grandfather, but...


Every time someone brings up “rock salt in a 12ga” the story is NEVER first-person. It’s always “My grand dad...”, “my neighbor...”, or “a farmer I knew growing up...”. It’s never a first hand experience.

Paul, from the op, also has a video on rock salt, and it shows just how useless it is. It’s too light. You’re less likely to get complete powder burn. Even if you do, it mostly disintegrates in flight, and the remaining particles lack the weight and hardness needed to penetrate.

[YouTube]5BY_sD3MvTY[/youtube]

Rock salt, which in my local lore was mixed with split peas, is/was not intended to stop dangerous intruders but rather to discourage kids from tipping over your woodpile or outhouse on Halloween, in other words to be a nonlethal load causing no permanent harm or immobility but exactly the opposite.

 

[kodiakjack]

Rock salt, which in my local lore was mixed with split peas, is/was not intended to stop dangerous intruders but rather to discourage kids from tipping over your woodpile or outhouse on Halloween, in other words to be a nonlethal load causing no permanent harm or immobility but exactly the opposite.

Which I get, but I think it’s effectiveness is on par with simply firing a shot into the air. If the subject is close enough for the salt itself to teach any kind of lesson, then they're close enough for the wad to cause serious damage. If they’re far enough away to avoid the wad, then they likely won’t even feel or be hit by the salt.

I could be wrong. It just seems to me that either: 1. Nobody has first hand experience of actually using rock salt defensively, or 2. Those that claim to, tend to be those known for telling the odd “fish story”...

A paintball gun packs a harder punch at “get out of my turnips!” range than rock salt does, but without the intimidating sound.


Never heard the split peas thing before... weird. Even lighter than the salt...

 

[kodiakjack]

But speaking of peas... and beans, “bean bag” rounds are certainly effective...

What if you loaded your rock salt into a mesh baggy? Something that would keep the salt together as a single projectile (may want to reduce the amount of salt to lower lethality) But then burst on impact with the subject, creating a skin deep wound riddled with fractured salt?

Is the quarantine over yet?

 

[TSherback]

I too live in Canada. It takes me precisely 5 seconds to go from the supine position in the master bedroom to obtaining and loading a firearm from legal storage. Obviously slower if the clock starts when I'm asleep.

Store your firearms as you see fit, but don't pretend that your excessive storage situation has anything to do with the laws of Canada.

Mine may be a bit slower then that but my situation is such that I have three lines of defence that would allow me ample time to get either a hand gun from my bedside or a shot gun from my closet loaded and ready to go well before an intruder could make it to my bedroom. First is alarms and multi pin locking doors, the doors would be difficult to come through without waking me and allowing me to be ready.
Number 2 is this... 270lbs of mastiff.

[/IMG]
the racket these guys make when someone comes on the property never mind to the door would wake the dead and them literally bouncing of the door would put the fear of god into anyone dumb enough to try a forced entry.
Number three of course is me and my wife with now loaded fire arms, say hello to my friend the the 9mil S&M 1911 with ten rounds and my wife with the 12 gauge with 00 buck.
Fortunately I'm old enough that my children are grown and out of the house so I don't generally have to worry about wall penetration.

 

[B]

#4 buck is the minimum for me. My typical loadout is 00 9 pellet. I have switched to a rifle with the shotgun as backup since moving to the country though. My reasons are the same as most that agree birdshot is not effective enough. This topic is as old as it gets.

 

[Win120]

Mine may be a bit slower then that but my situation is such that I have three lines of defence that would allow me ample time to get either a hand gun from my bedside or a shot gun from my closet loaded and ready to go well before an intruder could make it to my bedroom. First is alarms and multi pin locking doors, the doors would be difficult to come through without waking me and allowing me to be ready.
Number 2 is this 270lbs of mastiff.

[/IMG]
the racket these guys make when someone comes on the property never mind to the door would wake the dead and them literally bouncing of the door would put the fear of god into anyone dumb enough to try a forced entry.
Number three of course is me and my wife with now loaded fire arms, say hello to my friend the the 9mil S&M 1911 with ten rounds and my wife with the 12 gauge with #4 00 buck.
Fortunately I'm old enough that my children are grown and out of the house so I don't generally have to worry about wall penetration.

Copy that. Nothing better than a good dog ×2. By their barks alone you can tell friend or foe. A little warning to get your bearings doesn't hurt.

 

[Cameron SS]

Please don’t take this as a slight towards your grandfather, but...


Every time someone brings up “rock salt in a 12ga” the story is NEVER first-person. It’s always “My grand dad...”, “my neighbor...”, or “a farmer I knew growing up...”. It’s never a first hand experience.

Paul, from the op, also has a video on rock salt, and it shows just how useless it is. It’s too light. You’re less likely to get complete powder burn. Even if you do, it mostly disintegrates in flight, and the remaining particles lack the weight and hardness needed to penetrate.

Useless is debateable depending on the application.

Having been personally hit with rock salt from a shotgun, I can tell you it was perfectly useful in teaching the intended lesson.

If your buck naked and armed with a shotgun..... bird shot works fine.

Just the sight of a naked man with a shotgun will get most people questioning their comfort level and whether or not they really want to fight or flight.....

You know Cameron, I can't help but think Bill Burr is onto something, especially here in Canada where 22lr have no mag limits and where the majority of criminals doing things like B&Es don't have firearms. 25rds of 22lr is nothing to scoff at, I sure wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that, the relatively low noise, muzzle flash, and recoil ensures you have the best chance of not disorienting yourself... Although it's probably more lethal through drywall than #9 shot, and I too have a house full of other people I don't want hurt.

Having discharged firearms indoors without hearing protection, I can assure you he is on to something. My back up gun to the 12ga pump is a 22 lr revolver with CBs, which my dad always called City Bullets. And remember, 98% of the effectiveness of a firearm in a defensive gun use, is in having it. Once its known to the intruder that you are there, and you are able and ready to fight back, not too many criminals are going to hang around. Only psychopaths and gun owners would stare down the business end of a .22 diameter firearm and wonder about stopping power.

Rock salt, which in my local lore was mixed with split peas, is/was not intended to stop dangerous intruders but rather to discourage kids from tipping over your woodpile or outhouse on Halloween, in other words to be a nonlethal load causing no permanent harm or immobility but exactly the opposite.

Pretty much matches my personal experience exactly, except for the part that I can't say whether or not there were any split peas in the load.

 

[kodiakjack]

Come on Cam... you can’t just say you got peppered with rock salt and leave it there. :-D

We’re gonna need the whole story with details lol. Were you stealing turnips again?

 

[Cameron SS]

Come on Cam... you can’t just say you got peppered with rock salt and leave it there. :-D

We’re gonna need the whole story with details lol. Were you stealing turnips again?

Yes I can. I was a kid once. Halloween was rowdy where I grew up.

However I am not ashamed to admit that after I got home and had to explain how I got the marks on my back and holes in my clothes to my mother, my father dragged me by the ear the next morning back to the ranchers porch where I was presented to the rancher for punishment. My father ensured that reparations were made to to the ranch owner's satisfaction, which included reimbursing him out of my own pocket for the cost of the shell. It was a formative experience let me tell you.

 

[albertacoyotecaller]

Wouldnt you love to be held accountable for someone's medical bills and pain and suffering for the rest of their lives based on a judge's decision? I would rather be known for killing a criminal that was going to harm my family.

 

[Suther]

Wouldnt you love to be held accountable for someone's medical bills and pain and suffering for the rest of their lives based on a judge's decision? I would rather be known for killing a criminal that was going to harm my family.

If you're going to be held responsible for medical bills and pain and suffering, wouldn't you think killing the guy is going to put you in an even worse spot (mainly, prison for 25 to life?)

 

[kodiakjack]

Yes I can. I was a kid once. Halloween was rowdy where I grew up.

However I am not ashamed to admit that after I got home and had to explain how I got the marks on my back and holes in my clothes to my mother, my father dragged me by the ear the next morning back to the ranchers porch where I was presented to the rancher for punishment. My father ensured that reparations were made to to the ranch owner's satisfaction, which included reimbursing him out of my own pocket for the cost of the shell. It was a formative experience let me tell you.

Hah!! Even made you pay for the very shell that tagged you. That’s a beautiful little bit of justice there.

All the little things that build us into the men we become, eh?

 

[J.Hancock]

This I don't understand, it's like people who carry a shot gun for bear defence and have bird shot as their first round. Why? If I am in a position where I need to discharge a fire arm to stop something threatening my life sorry I'm not going to try and injure it.

I'm not trying to injure it either, I'm trying to make it stop doing what it's doing and perhaps reevaluate it's decisions. If I can make it my whole life without killing anybody.. for any reason.. it will not be a wasted life. If it ever came to it, I would kill, but only in defense of the innocent, and only if all other measures are exhausted. I don't expect everyone to share my view, and I don't judge you for not. Heck, if I had the will power to be vegan, I would be. *Banned* (lmao)

 

[rommelrommel]

Use what professionals use... most of the fuddlore about over penetration is wrong.

 

[Cameron SS]

Use what professionals use... most of the fuddlore about over penetration is wrong.

Which part of the controlled tests demonstrated in the posted videos is fuddlore?

Which professionals are you talking about. And for which application? Are you suggesting we should be using copper frangible slugs? Rubber? Bean bags? Pepper balls? Compressed cotton?

What do you think we should actually be using?

 

[The Kurgan]

4 buck, or 00 buck if you live in the country.
I'm not paying some a$$hole's medical bills for the rest of my life. I'd rather be in jail and carry the pride that I rid the planet of one more waste of air and protected others from future harm. Bean bags are for Mr. Dress-up.

 

[uglydukwling]

If deterrence is the aim, it may not matter what you use. I once knew someone who lived in a sketchy neighbourhood of Detroit. Once or twice a week, he would go out on the fire escape in the middle of the night and fire his shotgun in the air. He'd then line up the spent cases on his windowsill. His reasoning was that the junkies climbing the fire escape would see the empties, and realize "this is where the crazy guy with the shotgun lives" and move on to another apartment. He never had a burglary, but pretty well everyone else in the area did.