black guns and registry scrap

turbo-minivan

turbo-minivan

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i was talking with a friend today who posed a scary thought....

if the long gun registry is scrapped leaving only restricted guns to be registered, whos to stop them from simply reclassifying our non-restricted XCRs, SL8s, M-14s (and so on), as restricted and still leaving us screwed in the end?
sadly, i can see this as a very strong possibility

any thoughts? have people considered this outcome? :(
 
There is a lot of variables that come in to play here. If the LGR gets scraped it will because of a Conservative majority. If the CPC gets a majority and mark Holland gets turfed, the Tories will know gun owners contributed heavily to his downfall. This will be the best absolute perfect case as the CPC will look to further gun owner involvement to strengthen thier majority. So little bites out of c-68, not more gun grabs.

If the conservatives do not get a majority all hell will break loose and everyone will be way to busy to bother with the LGR.

If the Cons win but skidmark stays the LGR will go further down the list of priorities but will still happen. No further gun bans or laws will happen because the CPC wants our vote, volunteers and money. They use us, we use them and so goes politics.

This is just my ignorant opinion YMMV
 
turbo-minivan said:
i was talking with a friend today who posed a scary thought....

if the long gun registry is scrapped leaving only restricted guns to be registered, whos to stop them from simply reclassifying our non-restricted XCRs, SL8s, M-14s (and so on), as restricted and still leaving us screwed in the end?
sadly, i can see this as a very strong possibility

any thoughts? have people considered this outcome? :(
Click to expand...

it is a scary thought, one that i had myself. it is a possible outcome. but at this point in time i dont see it happening. im thinking if the tories fail to get a majority like it looks like is going to happen then things will be status quoe for firearms owners.

however i have come to the realization that at some point in my lifetime my pistols, revolver, tavor and AR will be phrohib and siezed once the stars line up and the ndp and liberals get into power and a masacre happens where many innocents are killed by a nut job. it happened in australia and its only a matter of time before it happens here to.
 
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I agree with what hillmanr2 said.

Here's another way to look at it. If we do get a Conservative majority, what benefit would it be to the Conservatives to further restrict any firearms through legislation, especially after they see the price the opposition parties would have paid for daring to think about a gun grab? It would be sheer stupidity to throw away so many votes.

However, in the nightmarish scenario of a coalition, you can bet your last dollar that the socialist power thieves would go after everything they possibly could get their dirty little hands on.
 
They would need to change the law to make a gun restricted based on its colour. That would be absurd. So instead they would ban them by name. If that happened then new firearms would come out and we'd have a new set of "XCR, Tavors" etc. The biggest threat right now is against semi-autos and hand guns, which is a much worse senario.
 
My take on this is... If we get a Conservative Majority the Long Gun Registry will end. The 3 anti-gun parties, ie the Lib's, NDP & Bloc, will take A LONG TIME to 'recover' on this issue & they will not have the politic fortitude to repeat or replicate the 2 Billion dollar process. The 'social experiment' of registering 'Long Guns' will have been tried, shown to be ineffective & history will document it as A FAILURE! This will be a WIN for all honest law abiding folks who participate in the shooting sports.

Now, IF we get a minority Conservative government, look out! In short order, we will see the minority Conservate government fall after a vote on the budget & then Iggy/Gilles/Jack will form the coalition they have been after. IF so, simple Orders In Council (OIC's) WILL be written by the 'Lib/NDP/Block' Minister of Public Safety and... 'POOF', they will take any of the guns they want with a pen stroke. Personally, that means my currently NON-Restricted Tavor & RFB will be gone, and I am sure my Norinco M4, M14 and Glock 22 will also be history!

For folks who may be reading this and saying, "What do I care, I only have 'hunting' guns..." Take my word on it, the Ruger Mini 14 WILL be one of the guns they include in the OIC, they have wanted to 'get rid of that gun' for a long time... Keep in mind that the anti-gunners want your semi's as well...

It truely is scarey 'what' a coalition could do with OIC's... OIC's have the potential the change everything!

Cheers
Jay
 
if the coaliltion does happen there goes a possibility that a ten round mag for grand fathered guns like the .303 will be restrict (possibility that is) as for the libs i thought i read some where that some of it's members jumping ship because of iggy's idiocy put them on with pc and more seat for them.
 
turbo-minivan said:
i was talking with a friend today who posed a scary thought....

if the long gun registry is scrapped leaving only restricted guns to be registered, whos to stop them from simply reclassifying our non-restricted XCRs, SL8s, M-14s (and so on), as restricted and still leaving us screwed in the end?
sadly, i can see this as a very strong possibility

any thoughts? have people considered this outcome? :(
Click to expand...

This question is about political optics and gun control practicalities. Most Anglophone gunners completely ignore Quebec and its gun culture. There are tens of thousands of bear, deer, moose and cariboo hunters in Quebec. The preferred rifle in the province is a Remington gas auto. Logically, what is the difference between a Remington 742 and a Norinco M14S? Nothing. So, will a federal party deliberately go after rural/suburdan hunters in a needed constituency, to arbitrarily lump them together with urban/street "criminals"? Making all magazine fed semi-auto rifles Restricted would come too close to too many households.

But, we know that national political parties have done the same to handgunners and other classes of rifles in the past ...
 
turbo-minivan said:
i was talking with a friend today who posed a scary thought....

if the long gun registry is scrapped leaving only restricted guns to be registered, whos to stop them from simply reclassifying our non-restricted XCRs, SL8s, M-14s (and so on), as restricted and still leaving us screwed in the end?
sadly, i can see this as a very strong possibility

any thoughts? have people considered this outcome? :(
Click to expand...

Don't forget the Conservatives own the Senate right now.
 
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Jay said:
My take on this is... If we get a Conservative Majority the Long Gun Registry will end. The 3 anti-gun parties, ie the Lib's, NDP & Bloc, will take A LONG TIME to 'recover' on this issue & they will not have the politic fortitude to repeat or replicate the 2 Billion dollar process. The 'social experiment' of registering 'Long Guns' will have been tried, shown to be ineffective & history will document it as A FAILURE! This will be a WIN for all honest law abiding folks who participate in the shooting sports.

Now, IF we get a minority Conservative government, look out! In short order, we will see the minority Conservate government fall after a vote on the budget & then Iggy/Gilles/Jack will form the coalition they have been after. IF so, simple Orders In Council (OIC's) WILL be written by the 'Lib/NDP/Block' Minister of Public Safety and... 'POOF', they will take any of the guns they want with a pen stroke. Personally, that means my currently NON-Restricted Tavor & RFB will be gone, and I am sure my Norinco M4, M14 and Glock 22 will also be history!

For folks who may be reading this and saying, "What do I care, I only have 'hunting' guns..." Take my word on it, the Ruger Mini 14 WILL be one of the guns they include in the OIC, they have wanted to 'get rid of that gun' for a long time... Keep in mind that the anti-gunners want your semi's as well...

It truely is scarey 'what' a coalition could do with OIC's... OIC's have the potential the change everything!

Cheers
Jay
Click to expand...

this is exactly my fear!!
 
You're all talking like a Con majority is going to be the end of the registry and the dawn of a new era in the gun community. What you're forgetting is that the RCMP has ALREADY begun banning non-restricted guns (T97) through the bureaucracy while the minority cons sat by and watched.

The RCMP has been silently doing the bidding of the conservatives banning 'evil' guns while the politicians tell us all about scrapping the long gun registry.

Now THAT is politics.

If you think the conservative government gives a #### about your non-restricted black rifle, you're dead wrong.
 
turbo-minivan said:
i was talking with a friend today who posed a scary thought....

if the long gun registry is scrapped leaving only restricted guns to be registered, whos to stop them from simply reclassifying our non-restricted XCRs, SL8s, M-14s (and so on), as restricted and still leaving us screwed in the end?
sadly, i can see this as a very strong possibility

any thoughts? have people considered this outcome? :(
Click to expand...

Which is precisely why we need to scrap both registries. Both have the same lack of purpose, both are useless for the same reasons. I never understood why it is that we fight so hard for the LGR and never mention the restricted arms registry. Harper says the LGR criminalizes farmers and hunters, which he feels is wrong ; doesn't he feel criminalizing sports shooters and collectors is equally inacceptable?

This is a big flaw in the reasonning against the LGR ; if you stand against one, you must stand against both, as there are NO differences between the two.
 
greendoh said:
What you're forgetting is that the RCMP has ALREADY begun banning non-restricted guns (T97) through the bureaucracy while the minority cons sat by and watched.
Click to expand...

They did not "sit by and watch". They (Toews) forced compensation to be paid. It ain't much, but it's a lot better than simple confiscation. It also sets an expensive precedent for other prohibitions.

You want to keep your guns? Get out and vote CPC. Get your friends and neighbours to do the same.

A lib-lead coalition can make any gun prohib or restrictured by OIC, senate be damned. And they will, be cause they need to throw something to their supporters just the same as the CPC does.
 
Jay said:
My take on this is... If we get a Conservative Majority the Long Gun Registry will end. The 3 anti-gun parties, ie the Lib's, NDP & Bloc, will take A LONG TIME to 'recover' on this issue & they will not have the politic fortitude to repeat or replicate the 2 Billion dollar process. The 'social experiment' of registering 'Long Guns' will have been tried, shown to be ineffective & history will document it as A FAILURE! This will be a WIN for all honest law abiding folks who participate in the shooting sports.

Now, IF we get a minority Conservative government, look out! In short order, we will see the minority Conservate government fall after a vote on the budget & then Iggy/Gilles/Jack will form the coalition they have been after. IF so, simple Orders In Council (OIC's) WILL be written by the 'Lib/NDP/Block' Minister of Public Safety and... 'POOF', they will take any of the guns they want with a pen stroke. Personally, that means my currently NON-Restricted Tavor & RFB will be gone, and I am sure my Norinco M4, M14 and Glock 22 will also be history!

For folks who may be reading this and saying, "What do I care, I only have 'hunting' guns..." Take my word on it, the Ruger Mini 14 WILL be one of the guns they include in the OIC, they have wanted to 'get rid of that gun' for a long time... Keep in mind that the anti-gunners want your semi's as well...

It truely is scarey 'what' a coalition could do with OIC's... OIC's have the potential the change everything!

Cheers
Jay
Click to expand...
Very close to our two scenarios for sure.

The antis want all guns, knives, and pointy sticks though. Not just semis.
 
greendoh said:
You're all talking like a Con majority is going to be the end of the registry and the dawn of a new era in the gun community. What you're forgetting is that the RCMP has ALREADY begun banning non-restricted guns (T97) through the bureaucracy while the minority cons sat by and watched.

The RCMP has been silently doing the bidding of the conservatives banning 'evil' guns while the politicians tell us all about scrapping the long gun registry.

Now THAT is politics.

If you think the conservative government gives a s**t about your non-restricted black rifle, you're dead wrong.
Click to expand...



The key to your statement is Conservative MINORITY government. They can't take overt action against firearms legislation at this time because the rest of the parties have made this a critical issue of support, and the average non-gun owner doesn't really care about the issue. All they hear and understand is rampant firearms in our cities with the proposed changes. And quite frankly, to take the RCMP to task on the delays and reclassifications they are doing under such broadly interpretable legislation is also not worth the effort in the setting of a minority government.

If the Conservatives get a majority then they will be able to modify the laws and ensure the RCMP follow the rules rather than make them up as they go along. Once the general population sees that the country doesn't revert to the wild west after abolishing the LGR the conservatives will be free to make further changes with less public outcry until we have a much more reasonable set of laws.

The key is a majority, and as many have said there will be slow stages of change so that the Conservatives will still have carrots to offer us as firearms owners in the future and keep our support (they are still politicians after all, as you say).

So get out and vote by the 2nd, and convince anyone else you can to vote conservative.


lonedrone
 
sewktbk said:
Which is precisely why we need to scrap both registries. Both have the same lack of purpose, both are useless for the same reasons. I never understood why it is that we fight so hard for the LGR and never mention the restricted arms registry. Harper says the LGR criminalizes farmers and hunters, which he feels is wrong ; doesn't he feel criminalizing sports shooters and collectors is equally inacceptable?

This is a big flaw in the reasonning against the LGR ; if you stand against one, you must stand against both, as there are NO differences between the two.
Click to expand...

I agree

One of law enforcements biggest fears was, if the LGR went it would create a ripple effect and make an easier case for Restricted Registry to be dismantled too.
 
Let's face it, any excuse to get a gun off the market is a good excuse where the RCMP are concerned. They don't like people having guns at all. However, it is a stretch to say that all black guns would be outlawed or restricted without the registry.

As gun owners we need to make the case that the future of rifles lies with black rifles. These guns are a progression in ergonomics over the antiquated traditional rifles. They are more comfortable to shoot, more practical as all-round small game and range guns, and they are certanly no bigger threat than many other rifles out there.

So why ban them? Endless Hollywood movies and newsreels of their combat counterparts, along with two terrible incidents at Canadian colleges have given them an unjust reputation.

To me black rifle designs are just the future. Even flintlocks were once "assault" rifles but things progress. So-called "black rifles" are the next progression. I think we need to impress that on people when we talk about them to dispel people's fears.

We need to lobby in that direction, both within our own gun community and outside it.
 
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