black guns and registry scrap

I'm not posting against the Conservatives, I just want to temper expectations. Chances are that when the long gun registry dies (which it will under a conservative majority) expect the RCMP to reclassify our black guns as restricted or prohibited. The Cons will say it is out of their control, the RCMP is doing it, and let it happen.

We may get paid for our guns, but we're still going to lose them.

I'll be voting Conservative because they truly are our only hope. Don't think for a minute that they will defend us when push comes to shove.

Think about this - if the CPC had to ban the XCR to gain a majority gov't would they do it?

Damn right they would. Sell out a few hundred people, possibly piss off a couple thousand people to secure political dominance. That's how things are done in a modern democracy. It's not about the people, its not about the constituents, its not about you or me, or our fancy black rifles. It's about political power and that's it.
 
lonedrone said:
If the Conservatives get a majority then they will be able to modify the laws and ensure the RCMP follow the rules rather than make them up as they go along.
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This is where I think our opinions differ. Its just speculation on both of our behalves, but my point is that the Cons, majority or not, will NOT change the rules. They will hide behind the auspices that the RCMP is doing the gun grabbing, and do nothing to protect us.

Its very convenient for governments to hide behind civil servants. Keep the fringe constituents happy with the party while maintaining the centrist majority interest.
 
greendoh said:
I'm not posting against the Conservatives, I just want to temper expectations. Chances are that when the long gun registry dies (which it will under a conservative majority) expect the RCMP to reclassify our black guns as restricted or prohibited. The Cons will say it is out of their control, the RCMP is doing it, and let it happen.
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Such a thing cannot happen without an OIC, and it wouldn't go unchallenged.
 
Ebola said:
it is a scary thought, one that i had myself. it is a possible outcome. but at this point in time i dont see it happening. im thinking if the tories fail to get a majority like it looks like is going to happen then things will be status quoe for firearms owners.

however i have come to the realization that at some point in my lifetime my pistols, revolver, tavor and AR will be phrohib and siezed once the stars line up and the ndp and liberals get into power and a masacre happens where many innocents are killed by a nut job. it happened in australia and its only a matter of time before it happens here to.
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Only blackguns, FAL's and the like (like the ones Martin Bryant acctually used) were made prohib back home, we were still allowed to keep our Handguns & Semi's. The LIBERAL Govt. of the day thought that it would reduce gun crime, nothing is further from the truth as we all know. Lets face it if a criminal has it in his mind that he wants a gun, he/she will be able to find one. When I was a LEO back in Australia the most common assult/murder weapon was a $2.00 Steak Knife from the dollar store, I never saw a steak knife become a prohibited weapon nor did I see a steak knife registry.

We need to form a political party made up of Shooters & Hunters to run for election and win a seat or two, that way we would have someone on the inside who would be able to table fact and voice our concerns/opinions. Theres a party back home called the Shooters party and thats exactly what they're doing, theyre also fighting to get the decision that little Johnny Howard and his evil Liberals put in place reversed.
 
Agent Law said:
Such a thing cannot happen without an OIC, and it wouldn't go unchallenged.
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Really? Talk to type 97 owners about that one. No OIC, just the RCMP reclassifying our guns under the nose of the conservative government.

I agree that it shouldn't happen without an order in council, but the RCMP is doing it. They're also keeping guns coming into the country tied up in administrative hell awaiting classification (turkish M-16 lookalike shotgun). They're also taking guns that have no mechanical similarity to other guns and classifying them as 'variants' of rifles (Umarex/Colt .22LR M4 clone) to keep them off the market.

This is all under the nose of the conservatives.

Lets be realistic. If the liberals were in control we'd have seen an OIC that declares the XCR, T97, TAVOR, Swiss Arms, etc prohibited. The conservatives are the answer for us, but to what extent? What happens if they overhaul the system? Will they have the RCMP reclassify a bunch of guns to keep the scary ones in the registry?

Who knows.
 
Another point to remember - the firearms community in Canada is split between the old guard hunters and their 'duck guns', and a generation of enthusiast hunter/target shooter/collectors.

What is the split?

How many gun owners are in Canada?

How many members are on this forum?

How many duck hunters care about your black rifles?

Is the enthusiast vote big enough to be a concern for any party?

Is the enthusiast vote small enough that the cons can throw us under the bus in the name of a majority and get away with it?

No disrespect meant to members like Garry Breitkreuz who truly fight for our rights. Even Garry has been effectively pushed to the fringe of the party.
 
turbo-minivan said:
if the long gun registry is scrapped leaving only restricted guns to be registered, whos to stop them from simply reclassifying our non-restricted XCRs, SL8s, M-14s (and so on), as restricted and still leaving us screwed in the end?
(
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It's entirely possible... I'd go so far as to say it's highly likely.

I forsee a day when everything 'cept a simple bolt action "hunting rifle" will be either banned or restricted... Unless of course you fall into some specific group.. You know, a farmer or aboriginal.

The OFAH will be happy, but the rest of us... Not so much.
 
Leroy78 said:
Only blackguns, FAL's and the like (like the ones Martin Bryant acctually used) were made prohib back home, we were still allowed to keep our Handguns & Semi's. The LIBERAL Govt. of the day thought that it would reduce gun crime, nothing is further from the truth as we all know. Lets face it if a criminal has it in his mind that he wants a gun, he/she will be able to find one. When I was a LEO back in Australia the most common assult/murder weapon was a $2.00 Steak Knife from the dollar store, I never saw a steak knife become a prohibited weapon nor did I see a steak knife registry.

We need to form a political party made up of Shooters & Hunters to run for election and win a seat or two, that way we would have someone on the inside who would be able to table fact and voice our concerns/opinions. Theres a party back home called the Shooters party and thats exactly what they're doing, theyre also fighting to get the decision that little Johnny Howard and his evil Liberals put in place reversed.
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This is what we should have done 10 years ago.....

We will see where the cons are in regards to supporting us if they get a majority..
 
Listen guys, lets just focus on getting the CPC in power. Once they are in, we'll start lobbying them like hell to reform the firearm laws. No other party will listen to us but them. Yes, there still politicians, they might blow us off, but they're the only chance we have.
 
greendoh said:
Really? Talk to type 97 owners about that one. No OIC, just the RCMP reclassifying our guns under the nose of the conservative government.

I agree that it shouldn't happen without an order in council, but the RCMP is doing it. They're also keeping guns coming into the country tied up in administrative hell awaiting classification (turkish M-16 lookalike shotgun). They're also taking guns that have no mechanical similarity to other guns and classifying them as 'variants' of rifles (Umarex/Colt .22LR M4 clone) to keep them off the market.

This is all under the nose of the conservatives.

Lets be realistic. If the liberals were in control we'd have seen an OIC that declares the XCR, T97, TAVOR, Swiss Arms, etc prohibited. The conservatives are the answer for us, but to what extent? What happens if they overhaul the system? Will they have the RCMP reclassify a bunch of guns to keep the scary ones in the registry?

Who knows.
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Once again we are dealing with a scenario of vagueness with your examples. The Type 97 issue is supposedly a converted full auto problem (again, somewhat speculation as the facts have never been released) and if this is in fact true then by the current laws it should be prohibited (we'll leave that topic in itself for another day!).

As for variants by appearance, then the definition (or lack thereof) of a variant is the main issue. The CPC again is in a situation where it's somewhat wasted resources fighting this with a minority government. Once we have a firm hold, new legislation will hopefully spell things out more clearly and eliminate the RCMP's interpretation in many of these decisions. As gun owners, we will of course have to stay vigilant on those changes and the details of the laws proposed to make sure they are an actual improvement.

Could the CPC reclassify some firearms to keep tabs? Absolutely. Will they? Possibly. We need to ensure that they know as gun owners we are watching them and aware of what they try to do.

lonedrone
 
The long gun registry is not about public safety, but about control. It's time for gun owners, and hunters to stand together, instead of bickering amongst ourselves. We need to show all governments that there are clear consequences for attempting to take away our freedom.............and the freedom of all Canadians.
It was once said that Canadians don't have the right, but the privilage to own guns. That needs to change.
Mike
 
mike shickele said:
The long gun registry is not about public safety, but about control. It's time for gun owners, and hunters to stand together, instead of bickering amongst ourselves. We need to show all governments that there are clear consequences for attempting to take away our freedom.............and the freedom of all Canadians.
It was once said that Canadians don't have the right, but the privilage to own guns. That needs to change.
Mike
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Actually Canadians do have the RIGHT to gunownership, and its pretty simular toi the 2nd amendment in the US - after Canada/US/Australia were all cut from the same cloth - Britian. The Canadian Government has kept it under wraps and made it appear that it is a privilege. I have it in one of my Law text books that I am trying like hell to find because it actually gives reference to the section and sub-section of the Canadian Constitution where it is contained.

But you are right, we all need to band together and let our voices be heard. and let these polititians know we wont go without a fight.
 
Leroy78 said:
Actually Canadians do have the RIGHT to gunownership, and its pretty simular toi the 2nd amendment in the US - after Canada/US/Australia were all cut from the same cloth - Britian. The Canadian Government has kept it under wraps and made it appear that it is a privilege. I have it in one of my Law text books that I am trying like hell to find because it actually gives reference to the section and sub-section of the Canadian Constitution where it is contained.

But you are right, we all need to band together and let our voices be heard. and let these polititians know we wont go without a fight.
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EWWWWWWWW!!!! Find that book! And this plea goes out to all Nutz!
Mike
 
Jay said:
My take on this is... Now, IF we get a minority Conservative government, look out! In short order, we will see the minority Conservate government fall after a vote on the budget & then Iggy/Gilles/Jack will form the coalition they have been after. IF so, simple Orders In Council (OIC's) WILL be written by the 'Lib/NDP/Block' Minister of Public Safety and... 'POOF', they will take any of the guns they want with a pen stroke. Personally, that means my currently NON-Restricted Tavor & RFB will be gone, and I am sure my Norinco M4, M14 and Glock 22 will also be history!
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I think it's safe to assume that anything that doesn't come in any colour other than black will be on the list.
 
I'm a little sceptical of every party with regards to this issue, the Conservatives included. At the end of the day, the Conservative politicians are, first and foremost, politicians.

This issue has mobilized the Conservative base. Everyone who is on this site is going to get out and vote, and most of us are going to vote Conservative. This issue has actually been a benefit to the CPC in this regard, and could in the end result in a majority government for them.

I will be watching damned close to see how long it takes them to scrap the LGR, once they are elected. If it takes longer than 6 months to get this done, we will all have to ask ourselves if our values (in this case, the right to gun ownership) have simply been used for political currency.

I personally will be meeting with my local CPC rep, Tony Clement, at the end of the month at the Shooters Rendezvous in Sundridge. I will be telling him exactly what I have said above, and that I will be measuring his performance in particular on this issue. I hope all of you will do the same; BEFORE the election, tell your CPC (or whomever) that you are expecting expeditious results on this issue, and that you WILL BE WATCHING.

Then, watch.

To answer the original question a bit more specifically; I don't think that if the LGR is scrapped that we will see a big change in the lexicon of classification. Scrapping the LGR will require a CPC majority, and they will not likely allow shenanigans like this to carry on.

We'll have to wait and see...
 
You guys are paranoid. The CPC could have made all black guns restricted or prohibited right now with encouragement from the other parties. What makes you think that when they hold all the cards they will do anything different when though could have done it already.
 
mrsmitty said:
You guys are paranoid. The CPC could have made all black guns restricted or prohibited right now with encouragement from the other parties. What makes you think that when they hold all the cards they will do anything different when though could have done it already.
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I was referring to Jay's scenario where a CPC minority collapses with a NDP-Liberal-Block lead coalition. All bets are off if this happens.
 
mrsmitty said:
You guys are paranoid. The CPC could have made all black guns restricted or prohibited right now with encouragement from the other parties. What makes you think that when they hold all the cards they will do anything different when though could have done it already.
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Well the obvious fact they need our votes, without us they wouldn't even be on the radar..
 
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