Black powder + 45/70 components for 1000 yard shooting

tigrr

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Burns Lake BC
Where would a guy find components and buy black powder in say Edmonton north in Alberta?
Its for 45/70 reloading.
I have the 500 grain bullets and brass.
Also: Whats your recipe for a 500 gr bullet to reach out to a 1000 yard buffalo.

I want to shoot at this guy at 1000 yards He's 4'X8'.
 
Get a hold of Wes Summach in Grimshaw, He has some Swiss 1 1/2Fg powder for sale (gold standard for BPCR). My load for 415 Grain lead bullets at 500 yards is as follows:

Federal case
WLR primer
67 Grains of Swiss 1 1/2Fg poured through a 2' drop tube using a 5 second pour
A LDPE wad cut from a coffee can lid ( a .45 ACP case sharpened at the mouth works great for this)
Tracing paper card over the wad (to avoid having the wad stick to the bullet)
Seat the bullet for .030" powder compression (DO NOT leave an air space!)

However, it only works in MY rifle, you'll have to play around with the specs a bit for yourself.
 
A very admirable aspiration.
I had to file down myfront sight, just to hit the target at 100 yards using black powder with the rear sight at its highest setting, with the 45-70 Marlin XLR.
 
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play around a bit. You may find Pyrodex CTG easier to get, and almost as much fun. One thing you may find is that the 45-70 can be finicky. I had a Trapdoor that hated compressed loads. Loosely filled to capacity with the boollit just touching the powder was best. It liked a 405 gr. hollow point, pure lead.
 
It really depends on your rifle. Most 1000 yard shooting with .45-70 and blackpowder is done with single shot rifles with fairly long barrels and high quality target peep sights.
The bullets need to be weighed after casting, and need to be perfect. At 1000 yards you cannot depend on 'good enough.' The blackpowder also needs to be weighed for each charge, and use a drop tube (I made a 24 inch drop tube) to settle the powder in the case and maximize the amount. The powder charge is the amount that can be put in the case and have the bullet seated with slight compression (about 1/8 inch or so). The bullet seating will depend on the rifle and the throat. Some single shots required a deep seating, while some allowed longer overall length. Your powder charge will depend on the seating depth.
If you haven't done so, then I would suggest you start at closer ranges and work your way out to 1000 yards. The bullet drop is extreme and it is helpful to have elevation data on the way out.
Wind is also a big player.
 
I have experience out to 500 yards and with the soule sites/ hadley eye piece coming, 1000 should be in the cards. Most of the shooting has been with smokeless, just now delving into the black powder world. I know I have a lot to learn but with a 500 yard range off my screened in porch should be do-able. Bullet drop at 500 was 44 feet. Need to do the math yet for 1000. I'm smiling because I'm moving from shooting at a mile back to 1000 yards. Different caliber though. Time to read up on drop tubes. Right after I do the ballistic calculations.
 
Tigrr, I've seen alot of this at the Bethune range and also at Willow Bunch Saskatchewan.
At least you have that 100 power optics for the spotter. Shooters down there would scrub thier empty brass right at the range with hot water and soap (Murphy`s Oil Soap or just dishwashing soap liquid) and let the empties dry on plywood sheet pegboards, using the rows of nails to hang the brass onto, to dry out.
It will be considerably easier to spot your shots and do corrections with those .45 calibre hunks of lead.
I suspect you've already chosen to keep a logbook to record comeups are varying distances? Absolutely the best idea for us older and possibly forgetful types.

Be warned though........this kind of rifle sport can be very addictive friend.

Cheers!
 
These people really know their stuff.

I can't believe that none of them have even gotten into proper bullet sizing to bore dimensions though.

I guess like all folks really into their sport, they just assume you have taken this precaution. Also none have gotten into different bullet lubes or design, although you mention you already have 500 grain bullets. The thing is are they conducive to good stabilization and accuracy out to 1000 yards.

Shooting lead is a whole different learning curve. Lead will behave differently from batch to batch, depending a lot on hardness and of course temperatures.

I stayed away from long distance BP shooting on purpose. I tend to get very single minded and totally involved in such things. There is only so much time in a person's life to become totally involved with anything.

Good luck and enjoy.
 
R&T Firearms out of Warburg will have Goex.

My favourite right now is the postel, over 65 grains goex FFFg compressed enough so the bullet can be seated to just cover the last grease groove, newpaper underpowder wad, 1/32 flexitallic over powder wad (gasket material), bullet pan lubed with Emmerts lube, set off with a federal LR primer. Shot out of a shiloh LRE.

You'l likely be compressing far more then 1/8th with goex at least, and if your using the government roundnose (the 500 grainer) you might consider getting the lyman postel its a little heavier and so far is my personal favourite.

Consider 3Fg for the 45-70, and buy a wad punch.

Consider boomers moulds out of saskatchewan http://www.boomersmoulds.com/

What are you shooting it out of?
 
The more I read about using Black powder the less I want to try it!! Different lube, blow tubes, wads, paper patching, f, ff, f 1/2, fff, drop tubes. Where does it end?

It was so simple casting the bullets , dropping them into a bowl with Lee liquid alox stand to dry. Load them into the cases with 13 grains of IMR 700X and shoot. 3 inch group at 150 yards from a rest. I really have to think this over.

Oh the 2 45/70 fun guns are a H&R Buffalo Classic and a Marlin 1895 Cowboy. Last saturday they flung 50000 grains of lead into the air!! 7.14 pounds of lead. Pure fun.
 
The more I read about using Black powder the less I want to try it!! Different lube, blow tubes, wads, paper patching, f, ff, f 1/2, fff, drop tubes. Where does it end?

It was so simple casting the bullets , dropping them into a bowl with Lee liquid alox stand to dry. Load them into the cases with 13 grains of IMR 700X and shoot. 3 inch group at 150 yards from a rest. I really have to think this over.

Oh the 2 45/70 fun guns are a H&R Buffalo Classic and a Marlin 1895 Cowboy. Last saturday they flung 50000 grains of lead into the air!! 7.14 pounds of lead. Pure fun.

You should have all of them touching or nearly so, once you have a good load, good sight picture/arperture and get some more practice. A spirit level front sight will make a world of difference.

I have fiddled with smokeless for reliable accuracy, but it wont come close to the FFFg for accuracy as long as I control fowling. For me anyways. If you think its to much for you to try its understandable. If you're using lever gun bullets rolled in alox, you're going to have a very steep learning curve. What you're really going to have a hard time accepting is you're powder solvent is now water.:eek:

Honestly I was in your shoes for about 2 years with the shiloh, and I "kicked the tires" so to speak on shooting black. But one day I had enough, gave in and spent the extra 10 minutes it takes to load 50 shells with black powder and followed some methods others used and was very pleased with how the gun shot. Alot of the things I thought would be difficult and tedious are not (stack your wad material and punch 5 or more at a time) I stopped using my lubsizer and went to straight pan lubing (again far easier). My very first group was far better then anything I have shot with smokeless, the recoil is less, my powder solvent comes from the tap and all in all the shooting is far more enjoyable. Load ten shells and give it a try.

I will say probably the biggest mistake people do is try using the wrong type of bullet right from the start. I've tried the postel, shmitzer, government roundnose and the creedmore shapes and while all of them performed pretty good, I keep falling back to the Postell. I tried some of the lighter weights and some "lever gun" bullets and was never satisfied with them.

You still couldn't prod me enough to take the time to paper patch, but in a few years I bet I'l give in to trying that as well.

Im very curious how you're planning to get to 1000 yards with the buffalo classics sight.
 
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There was a set of 4"soule sites ordered for the rifles, but it seems there back ordered again.
Wish I had a black powder mentor up in this neck of the woods. More reading. People are suggesting 3 different black powders. Is it just a personal prefference?
Don't worry canuck there will be marks on the buffalo from my practicing!! Black powder here we come.

300 empty cases waiting to be reloaded!!
shopping list
BP bullet lube
BP FF & FFF
Drop tube
More BP reloading books.
Road trip.
cheers:cheers:
 
Its personal preference, like reloading anything else, different guns like different stuff. This is definately a reloaders pass time, you will be trying all sorts of ideas. You will forever be experimenting with new combinations, its getting to such an extent that Im thinking of getting a pedersoli gibbs, just so I can eliminate using a reloading press before I take a shot with a new combination!

The ASSRA and shiloh forums are probably your best source for loads and ideas. Guys there are doing some neat fiddling with different loads rather then just staying with how people loaded shells 20 years ago and theres alot of experienced people there doing alot of experimenting, rather then the usual rehashing from people who just repeat what they read on the web. Its were I got the idea to try the more heavily compressed FFFg and the underprimer wad. Cast boolits was another good source. The only book I can recommend is Paul Mathews "40 years with the 45-70" his other books are basically all reitterations of what he what he wrote in that book.

Dont be afraid to experiment, thats how guys are coming up with some very neat ideas on wad materials, primer types, bullet shapes, lubes, seating depths and other stiff. Alot of guys are using large pistol primers in their loads, its something Im going to try out next. Some are also using vaseline as a component of their bullet lube with good results, which flies in the face of the usual mantra of "dont use petroleum products for black powder lube".

Your BP lube is easily home made, theres no reason to buy it, heres some recipes. http://www.bpcr.net/index-a.htm
A drop tube is a funnel attached to a long skinny pipe again you can probably find the stuff to make one around your house, when I do use a drop tube (not very often), mines made from that skinny copper tubing at home hardware and a little machined funnel I turned up. My wad punch is made from an old drilled out arc punch I found in the junk drawer.
You really will need wad material thats worth reading up on.

The underprimer wad idea was actually a "lifesaver" for me, because I was experiencing failure to fire from about half the shells I loaded, sure enough powder was trickling through the flash hole and causing me grief, the wad eliminated the failure to fire with the FFFg. Again it was very hard for me to accept a peice of paper between the primer and the powder was a good idea, but it works excellent. If it wasn't for those other guys new ideas, I probably would have given this up a long time ago.

Who makes a soule sight for the buffalo classic?
 
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One other thing is that most long range BP shooters will fire form the brass, and load from there. Drop the powder in through the drop tube, use a compression die. Do not use the bullet to compress the powder you will squish it. and use your thumb to seat the bullet for single shots only. Yes is may be loose but thats ok. My 45-70 brass never sees any die for resizing.

I use a 45-70 case full of FFG as a measure, drop tubed it, it will settle in the case milk carton wad on the powder and then compressed with a die to give me my oal when the 535g bullet is seated with my thumb. it works for me

Any BP shooter that does not have a tummbler and SS media don't know what they are missing when it come to cleaning BP shot brass.
 
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Just an update for you for a smokeless load to try.

Got back from the range to try my last few smokeless rounds left, 32 grains of reloader 7 under the 500 grain lyman government round nose (mould number 457125) cast of straight wheel weights, cast VERY hot. Lubed with toilet bowl wax ring (cheap as dirt) mixed with a couple cap fulls of ATF and some graphite added for colour. Bullets sized to .458. Barrels a 1 in 18 twist.

Puts 4 in one ragged hole grouping under an inch and the fifth just touching it. And does it reliably. I may not be done with smokeless yet. Il up the charge and see how it goes because I doubt it has the steam to keep going out to 1000 yards.

Like I said you'l forever be experimenting!!
 
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