Black powder Deer Rifle (help)

.54

Buy a .54 caliber flinter. I know where one is for sale. :D Seriously though, 45 cal and up is a must for deer sized game. IMO inlines should not be allowed for use in controlled BP hunts. Its not that I am a traditionalist but I believe these hunts were meant to be a primitve weapon hunt and using an inline with a scope that can accurately shoot sabots out to 150 yards was not in the spirit of what these hunts were intended for. Almost seems like cheating, might as well use a big bore ruger #1 or a cross bow in archery season.
 
juanvaldez said:
Buy a .54 caliber flinter. I know where one is for sale. :D Seriously though, 45 cal and up is a must for deer sized game. IMO inlines should not be allowed for use in controlled BP hunts. Its not that I am a traditionalist but I believe these hunts were meant to be a primitve weapon hunt and using an inline with a scope that can accurately shoot sabots out to 150 yards was not in the spirit of what these hunts were intended for. Almost seems like cheating, might as well use a big bore ruger #1 or a cross bow in archery season.
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Sorry my son the world is changing.
 
juanvaldez said:
Buy a .54 caliber flinter. I know where one is for sale. :D Seriously though, 45 cal and up is a must for deer sized game. IMO inlines should not be allowed for use in controlled BP hunts. Its not that I am a traditionalist but I believe these hunts were meant to be a primitve weapon hunt and using an inline with a scope that can accurately shoot sabots out to 150 yards was not in the spirit of what these hunts were intended for. Almost seems like cheating, might as well use a big bore ruger #1 or a cross bow in archery season.
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Problem is,thru the eyes of many who have a say in what is leglislated "see" only the fact that the firearm is loaded from the muzzle.So then there is no discrimination. Hell,in Alberta we don't have any (except at CFB Wainwright by draw only) muzzle loading season,it's either bow or rifle period.
I myself shoot and hunt with; sidelock,in-line,bow and centerfire rifle.
It's what I choose and it's the decision I made.
I think we should all be lucky that we have the freedom to go out with our family's or what have you,even just the chance to go out and hunt whatever style we choose,
my .02cents:)
 
Huntsman said:
Problem is,thru the eyes of many who have a say in what is leglislated "see" only the fact that the firearm is loaded from the muzzle.So then there is no discrimination. Hell,in Alberta we don't have any (except at CFB Wainwright by draw only) muzzle loading season,it's either bow or rifle period.
I myself shoot and hunt with; sidelock,in-line,bow and centerfire rifle.
It's what I choose and it's the decision I made.
I think we should all be lucky that we have the freedom to go out with our family's or what have you,even just the chance to go out and hunt whatever style we choose,
my .02cents:)
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Easy way to fix that, do the same thing as PA...flintlock only.
 
Muzzle loading is muzzle loading. To each his own. However, it frosts my fritters when traditionalists take the position of excluding inlines. Do recurve bowhunters want to exclude compound bow hunters . Just because inlines are an advancement over traditional don't pee in my cornflakes:mad:
 
powdergun said:
Do recurve bowhunters want to exclude compound bow hunters . Just because inlines are an advancement over traditional don't pee in my cornflakes:mad:
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If a primitive bow season was made I would suspect that compound bows would be excluded. If you include inlines it might as well be called "Single Shot Season". Some of these new fangled contraptions will even shoot smokeless I hear. I have seen guns modified to shoot a dart using a powder charge, by your logic they should be allowed in archery season then??
 
juanvaldez said:
Buy a .54 caliber flinter. I know where one is for sale. :D Seriously though, 45 cal and up is a must for deer sized game. IMO inlines should not be allowed for use in controlled BP hunts. Its not that I am a traditionalist but I believe these hunts were meant to be a primitve weapon hunt and using an inline with a scope that can accurately shoot sabots out to 150 yards was not in the spirit of what these hunts were intended for. Almost seems like cheating, might as well use a big bore ruger #1 or a cross bow in archery season.
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This is the type of clap-trap that divides us fellas... The extra seasons and defined weapons hunts are a means to control a burgeoning deer population period. Pennsylvania is in the dark ages and hesitant to listen to the majority of hunters who want to change thier archaic definition of a Muzzle loader.
Spirit of the hunt... where did you come up with that nonsense... How about tossing your blackpowder and going back to chipped stone arrowheads and a stick and string!:rolleyes:
Your argument is drivel and your point is without merit.:mad:
 
BIGREDD said:
This is the type of clap-trap that divides us fellas... The extra seasons and defined weapons hunts are a means to control a burgeoning deer population period. Pennsylvania is in the dark ages and hesitant to listen to the majority of hunters who want to change thier archaic definition of a Muzzle loader.
Spirit of the hunt... where did you come up with that nonsense... How about tossing your blackpowder and going back to chipped stone arrowheads and a stick and string!:rolleyes:
Your argument is drivel and your point is without merit.:mad:
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This same crap is going on in the precision forum right now, and some of us have posted somewhat the same ( or slightly different( views there.
There are States where "primitive" means stickbow only or a flinter with PRB,, and some seasons where modern composites are not allowed on a stick bow.

What I do not like is somebody going to the nth degree to get around a rule just "so they can get more tags", with an inline for example.
I got no problem with somebody who wants to hunt with one because it is something different.
I got a big problem with somebody who would not hunt in a muzzle loading season unless they could do it withh an linline with a scope for example,
because any other type od muzzle loader is "no go" not effective" ,"only wounds" etc.

I have been preached at by people about the use of my stick bow,
I have been looked down upon about the use of my .303, about the use of my long range wildcats, and yes I have been looked down upon by people who shoot inlines when I talk about a patched round ball Hawken.
It's the attitude I can't stand, not the type of killing tool the guy is using.
There are people who try and put an animal into the B&C and P&Y books anyway they can, take the bigger bodied buck, look down upon anybody wjho shoots does, etc.
GO TO HELL I SAY!!:mad:
Shoot what you want to , when you want to,
BUT- Just make sure you are practiced and preppared to hunt and shoot in the way your weapon is effective.
Make a good shot, make no excuses, and justify it to NO ONE!!
Cat out
 
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I agee with everything you say Cat without exception.
We need to be more tolerant of each other... not dismissive or divisive.

I just want to clarify my statement, I do not and never will dismiss traditional hunting methods. I take exception to anyone who takes the position that inhibits or belittles any legal hunting method in a pitiful attempt to justify their own choice as somehow more worthy!

I am wondering about your statement Cat that in-line M/L owners are bending the rules somehow? What do you mean by that? The legal definition of M/L rifles was arrived at in our jurisdiction after careful consideration by knowledgeable Muzzle loader enthusiasts and biologists.
If there are a certain number of tags available in an area would it not behoove us a legitimate hunters and conservationists to try and fill those tags? Just wondering if this is intended a criticism of the modern inline hunters.... cuz that would be the pot calling the kettle black.
 
When a person goes out and buys a a certain hunting weapon with no other purpose in mind other than to get around a rule,BR, that is bending it IMHO.

I've seen it lots in the archery/ML sport, and we see it occasionally in all types of competition, soembody trying to get around a rule by sticking something on or doing something "not in the book" for no other reason than to win or get their animal therefore beating out soemone else, which is a shame.
Hunting and shooting are very relaxing sports, but if someone has to go to outside lengths to participate in them, there is something wrong.

Pope and Young envoked the percentage rule for compounds because of this perception, and I personally can't tell you if it is a good thing or not.
I don't shoot compounds.
same as cross bows.
In the same veinThe fair chase rule gets bent continually, as does the legal daylight law, for no otheer reason that to kill an animal by getting around a rule.
I know in Ontario you have all kinds of different seasons, but in Alaska, I believe, they have no special seasons, just hunting season - run what ya brung!
I would be okay with that, I have hunted for years with a muzzle loader and bow in regular seasons.
I would also be okay if I had to hunt with a self bow.
However, I think the spirit of the rule would be lost as soon as someone said to me "AH HA! THAT means I can hunt with my solid FIBERGLASSS BOW!"
That is not what was intended, a self bow being made of wood .
But then that would exclude a genuine horn bow, which was a composite.

Sometimes we get too many rules and laws, and i must confess I do not have a complete answer, except to get rid of them ( and the handgun hunting laws while we are at it!)
I do not own an inline BTW, for the same reason as I do not own a compound bow, just not my cup of tea.
In have friends who hunt with them however, as well as compounds.
Cat
 
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BIGREDD said:
I agee with everything you say Cat without exception.
We need to be more tolerant of each other... not dismissive or divisive.

I just want to clarify my statement, I do not and never will dismiss traditional hunting methods. I take exception to anyone who takes the position that inhibits or belittles any legal hunting method in a pitiful attempt to justify their own choice as somehow more worthy!
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X2

Hunting is hunting, regardless of our preferred means to which we lawfully dispatch furry woodland creatures.:)

Now that we are back on topic. For shear versatility, and availabily...50 cal:D
 
I guess the key to it all is our right to hunt in an ethical and environmentally sustainable manner. If a deer herd can withstand few animals removed by hunting then it really does not matter how. We need to be inclusive and not exclusive.

My solution is to allow inline users to only hunt on days ending in "y"
 
Anyway, as far as traditional muzzle loaders go, I have been shooting them since 1978 or so, and have formed the opinion that if one is using a bullet style prjectile, 50 cal is fine for deer and moose, but if one is going to shoot round ball, BIG is bettter.
The opinion is alsoo shared by the majority of hunters and shooters that I have had the good fortune to hunt and shoot with ( and that is a lot of shooters across Canada).
I changed to a .58 in 1980 , but started with a .50.
My son shoots a .54.
Big charges and big balls will get 'er dun !
Cat
 
Maybe it's just me,but it seems the "trad." m.l.'s are far mor popular in 50cal.
I agree to that bigger is better,but trying to find a .54 and up cal seems harder and harder these days with the markets flooded with .50 (and .45) cal muzzle loaders.This is going on the basis of present black powder gun manufacturer's producing traditional firearms ie: T/C,Lyman,Tradtions and Austin & Halleck.
 
BIGREDD said:
This is the type of clap-trap that divides us fellas... The extra seasons and defined weapons hunts are a means to control a burgeoning deer population period. Pennsylvania is in the dark ages and hesitant to listen to the majority of hunters who want to change thier archaic definition of a Muzzle loader.
Spirit of the hunt... where did you come up with that nonsense... How about tossing your blackpowder and going back to chipped stone arrowheads and a stick and string!:rolleyes:
Your argument is drivel and your point is without merit.:mad:
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Boy...can tell what you shoot. Guys like you tick me off. Try to circumvent what the rules originally intended just out of meat greed.
 
Can go all the bells and whistles , or go RB, cap or flintlock . And inline is a great tool be it 100 years ago, now its just another way to get afield for whatever season.
A 1-60 twist 54 cal flintlock would be my choice to get back in the day and see how things were like. Heck make some RB over the camp fire , shoot a deer the next day with that lead. Modern archery is the same, can go full out all terrain or stick and string. :D
 
juanvaldez said:
Boy...can tell what you shoot. Guys like you tick me off. Try to circumvent what the rules originally intended just out of meat greed.
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Show where the rules state this... if the original intention was such please explain to me why they have not altered the regs to eliminate Inlines? If they are so clearly against the rules why have they been allowed for fifteen years? You have no argument because you lack the capacity to see the big picture. You are so caught up in your simple one track existence that you are attacking your own brothers out of ignorance.:mad:
I am quite pleased that I have ticked you off as you are the antithesis of everything I stand for. A person who believes he is a hunter but criticizes other hunters without logic... that is what I call intellectually bereft.:(
FYI I shot a .50 cal Hawken with patch and ball for deer for years and I still shoot it.:eek:
The regulations and rules are quite clear and I am not breaking them by using an in-line for hunting. You want to be careful throwing around the greed and rule breaking comment friend. You are the one breaking forum rules.:mad:
 
juanvaldez said:
Boy...can tell what you shoot. Guys like you tick me off. Try to circumvent what the rules originally intended just out of meat greed.
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Meat greed? Your experience outside of sudbury Ont is astounding. You've obviously never hunted outside of your own backyard where your allowed more than one tag (Where I currently live, 7 tags per person available.)
Meat greed? Its called herd management, and for someone who can hardly manage an arguement on this thread, its abviously out of your personal scope to understand.
You likely havent seen a deer in a few years hunting, so I can understand why someone with a well managed property who can shoot what they want might ticked you off. BUt thats ok Juan, maybe next year...
 
JuanValdez, Give us all a break, yeah you are a real hunter and the rest of us are not but my HORN is bigger then yours so I am a better MAN then you.
The last thing our sport needs is narrow minded people like yourself.
Sgt.
 
If you are leaning towards an inline, any of the Spanish made guns (Traditions, CVA, Remington Genesis) will work for you if you only are interested in using it for one week a year. But if you think that it is something that you may want to shoot year round, I would suggest an American made gun (Savage, T/C, Knight, NEF). They are definitely of a higher quality.
 
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