Black Powder in Modern Rifle

Libra

Libra

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I am looking for input from the more knowledgeable black powder shooters out there as to whether I can "safely" shoot black powder in a modern rifle designed for smokeless powder. I am a newbie black powder addict and realize that unless a black powder rifle has been proofed for smokeless powder and so marked one should not use smokeless in it. My concern is using of black powder in smokeless rifle calibers. I have a couple of big bores and a .30 cal rifle that I would like to experiment with to see how they shoot. Any comments or experience?:confused:
Thanks
 
Black will work fine. Need to use 2f or 1.5f powder. Bullets for black really need proper lubrication tough. Use either a greased bullet or a lubed wad under the bullet base. If casting your own make sure your lead is the proper hardness. 90% lead, 5% tin, 5% antimony is usually a good mix. Pre-cast bullets from The Bullet Barn or Oma Products would be a good place to start if you don't want to cast your own. Black is a little dirtier than you're used to; however, it is much easier to clean everything up. Hot water, soap, and a couple of rags are usually the trick.
 
One problem you might have is that modern rifles have a rifling twist rate that is too fast to shoot black powder accurately.

I remember reading that the Winchester .32 Special was made with a slower twist rate (1 in 16) so that it could be reloaded with black powder.

You can "safely" shoot black powder in any modern gun that is in good condition. Even lower powered modern cartridges are proofed for pressures way higher than black powder will deliver.

Sam Fadala, in his book "Black Powder Loading Manual" tests a bunch of modern cartridge rifles/handguns with black powder loads but they are mostly chambered in cartridges that were originally designed for black powder like the .45-70, .44-40, .38-55 etc.

Have fun and let us know how you make out.
 
I shoot it in my Marlin 45-70, Uberti Cattleman (.45 Colt) and have tried others along the line. Give 'er.

.30 Cal is unlikely to give you good results, the bore will foul quickly.

As noted above, soft cast works best but your LUBE is arguably the more important factor. Use only non-petroleum based lube. I personally favour 50/50 beeswax & olive oil. Melt it together in a double boiler & pan lube (just stand them on end). I let them cool & then use a brass tube to cut them out (I recently discovered long drawn brass tubes at the craft store, they are sized just right for .459" slugs).

Bullet Barn will indeed sell you unlubed bullets - however those are HARD cast. They won't bump up as well. But, in a modern firearm like my Marlin, they do seem to function well enough. You might get some leading, just play around with it.

A blow tube between shots may be required - just some clear fuel line, blow down the barrel. Experiment and see how many shots in your rifle you can get away with. In my .45 Colt, I've run almost 50 BP loads straight without the action getting tight or losing minute-of-steel-plate accuracy. Your results will depend on your lube, temperature, local humidity, the angle of the moon, etc etc.

Yup soap and water are your best friend with BP. Keep it real simple.

your BRASS WILL CORRODE QUICKLY unless you drop them in something to neutralize the effects (I just drop em in a container containing windshield washer fluid, at the range).

Good luck
 
I almost forgot to point out the most important thing from a safety perspective: COMPRESSION. Leave NO AIR SPACE. Use a filler if you want to load down.

For rifle loads such as the .45-70 & 45-90, a drop tube should be used. A card or wad under the base of the bullet is also suggested for accuracy & uniformity. Pistol calibers, I just compress using a compression plug in a die or, depending upon the load & your experience, I do often compress using the bullet.

Good luck
 
I am going to take exception to some of the things said so far; I would shoot 3F powder in most or all of the modern cartridge modern action choices available. I also would load with a drop tube and additionally lightly compress the powder although not fore safety reasons but rather for a uniform burn rate. I use a 50-50 mixture of bear grease and bees wax although any animal grease such as lard would do just as well as bear grease. I would use bullets cast with 5% alloy rather than 10% and I feel at least part of the reason for a tin/antimony addition is for better casting properties. Some guns will shoot hard cast bullets well with black powder but those I would put the prelubed slugs in boiling water to remove the waxy lube so that I could replace it with an animal grease / bees wax mixture. You have not mentioned what action of gun you would be using but keep in mind that it needs to be washed out with warm water after shooting. Also keep in mind to make and use a blow tube to moisten the bore between shots. I am sure that blow tubes were not used in military guns in ancient wars but neither was accuracy particularly achieved in battles of the mid to late 1800s. Finally if the gun has a long tight throat, you may have to pass a bronze brush through it between shots or the shells will not chamber. A short throat would not have that problem
Final thought is that I would hesitate to use black in a modern 30 cal rifle because of fouling problems between shots. Keep in mind that I am thinking of say a 303 loaded with black powder as opposed to a 32-20 single shot with black powder

cheers mooncoon
 
For a fun experiment last year I loaded a few rounds of .303 with about 55 grains of 3F lightly compressed, card wad over the powder, followed by a thin grease cookie, another wad, and topped with a 180 grain bullet. Shot these out of a no4 mk1. This load chronographed at about 1300-ish fps, recoil was light, grouped surprisingly well at 50 yards (less than 2'' IIRC). I had to wipe the bore between shots, without any cleaning between shots the 3rd round would not chamber due to fouling.

It was a fun and interesting experiment but I will be saving the BP for my Garrett sharps percussion and hopefully a Martini-Henry someday soon.
 
Thanks for the replies. I use SPG lube in my current black powder guns and it works really well. I was planning on trying it first in a .450 Marlin and possibly in a .357 single shot rifle. I have read, in the past, about shooters in the USA shooting some local matches using .30 cal. single shot rifles with excellent accuracy results (I'm thinking of trying a .308 or 30-06). I'm hoping that with the SPG lube and a bullet with proper grease groves I can get a couple or perhaps three shots off before having to clean the barrel. Just as an aside, I drop my empty brass into a container of warm water and a feww drops of dish soap right after I remove it from the firearm. Once I get home I wash them in soap and water and then run them through my sonic cleaner. So far this method has worked for me with my brass.
 
Have at her.I load thousands of rounds of .45 colt .38 special and 45/70 with the Holy Black for my modern pistols and revolvers.I also load .303 for my Lee Metford because i would hate to erode the bore with smokeless.
 
Libra said:
I'm hoping that with the SPG lube and a bullet with proper grease groves I can get a couple or perhaps three shots off before having to clean the barrel.
Click to expand...

Personally I prefer loverin style cast bullets; ie ones with several narrow grease grooves and corresponding narrow ridges, and with minimal amount of bore riding nose

cheers mooncoon
 
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