Black Powder Question?

tinymike66

tinymike66

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Hello, I have a Webley & Scott W.S. Target. I currently shoot .352 lead 250gr projectiles with 3.8gr of unique with an overall length of 1.025"

I also just acquired a 1942 Enfiled Albion tanker in 38 s&w

I haven't loaded for the tanker yet

my question is. I would like to load with black powder.
I was curious if anyone had any black powder data for these top break pistols.

I have a 1lb bottle of goex FFFg and 3/4lbs of goex FFg sitting around itching to be used.
 
Black powder loads are pretty straightforward. Find soft lead bullets lubed with a black powder compatible lube or make some from crisco and bees wax. Fill the case to the level where the bullet will compress it slightly when seated at the crimp groove. Clean when done.

FFFG is standard for pistol rounds but the FFG will work fine and be slightly less pressure. Those guns were made with this load in mind and the old cases were balloon head construction and held more powder than modern brass.
 
vagrantviking said:
Black powder loads are pretty straightforward. Find soft lead bullets lubed with a black powder compatible lube or make some from crisco and bees wax. Fill the case to the level where the bullet will compress it slightly when seated at the crimp groove. Clean when done.

FFFG is standard for pistol rounds but the FFG will work fine and be slightly less pressure. Those guns were made with this load in mind and the old cases were balloon head construction and held more powder than modern brass.
Click to expand...

I ordered new sterline brass. I would assume it's modern spec.
So basically I gotta figure out some seating depth and go from there.
Would the .357 bullet not due??
 
The best bet is to slug the barrel and the cylinder mouth but usually the best results in 38 S&W are with bullets around .360. Guns vary and some people are doing fine with .357. There's a couple threads on this cartridge floating around at the moment.
Soft lead bullets should bump up to fit the bore when fired but the 38 S&W is a really low pressure round and might not do that as well as a bigger cartridge. Hollow base bullets might be another thing to try.

Seating depth is a good place to start. Should be somewhere around 10-12gr of FFFG powder I think. A little more so that it compresses slightly can make it burn a little cleaner, more consistently and give a bit more umph. You don't want to squeeze it hard enough to distort the bullet.
 
when U seat yur bullet make sure that there is no air space between bullet and powder. Having an air space could cause a catastrophic failure.
 
What are you going to be loading for?

Depends a bit on if you are using a compression die and wads etc or just want a full case. Figure out your overall length for the cartridge and measure how much of the bullet is in the case then fill with powder until it reaches the level inside just a little higher than where the base of the bullet will be.
It's different than loading for smokeless where it's all about the amount of powder. With black powder it's about putting in whatever is the right amount to make all the other factors work out. Cartridge length, amount of compression, room for cards, wads, or lube cookies etc, all dictate how you use the space in the cartridge.
 
The Webley's had at least two case lengths. The original MK1 was longer and designed originally with black powder in mind. The later MK11 came along when smokeless appeared on the scene and didn't need the same length of case to get the velocities needed for British Ministry.

I'm having a heck of a time finding MK11 cases for reloading, but have found a box of 45 Schoefield that will chamber. I had to thin the rims to get the gun (Webley WG) to close. Next step is to shorten the case and find a mold to use up some of my lead...
 
eaglesnester said:
when U seat yur bullet make sure that there is no air space between bullet and powder. Having an air space could cause a catastrophic failure.
Click to expand...

If he uses enough powder to be compressed by the bullet, there is no air space. Besides, that is a myth that "everyone knows". Steve Garbe, editor of "Black Powder Cartridge News" once published a US Army study wherein they deliberately seated bullets in the rifling ahead of bullets. They went to ridiculous lengths in the process, seating bullets near the muzzle, simulating a blocked bore. They even determined the velocity of these rds.

This dispelled both that myth and the alleged weakness of the Trapdoor action. When I had one of the first H&R Trapdoor carbines to come into the country, I had read that the carbine load was 55 grs as opposed to 70 for the rifle. So, I loaded 55 grs under 405 gr bullets. This left an airspace I did not fill with wads.

I shot hundreds of those loads in the Trapdoor and a Marlin 45-70 with no adverse affects and good accuracy.
 
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