Black powder vs. Substitute

3#cannon

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Hey guys ... just picked up my first muzzle loader and gathering some shooting supplies.
Do you prefer to use black powder or one of the substitutes available? Are the substitutes less corrosive and easier to clean up?
I guess I should mention that this is not a in line set up..
I'm also looking for suggestions on patch lube and cleaning/maintenance products.

Thanks.
 
Substitute won’t work well in a flintlock. Pellets don’t work well in most sidelock percussion guns. In my opinion best accuracy can be had with real bp but it can be hard to get. CVA bore butter works good as patch lube, I use a cheap amazon steam cleaner and/or hoppe’s bp solvent to clean. Many people also use very hot water to clean. For patch material you want to use a material with no synthetic fibres, for consistency you can measure its thickness with calipers. Some people use mattress ticking but anything will do. Watch out for smouldering patches on the ground after shooting.
 
Oh and I don’t really see a difference for cleaning and corrosion between real and substitutes. You can make you own lube with beeswax crisco and oil, many recipes online, most bp lubes are sensitive to temperature so a summer recipe won’t always work in the cold.
 
Many years ago, I had some good results using Pyrodex (RS?) but that was from a NEWLY opened can. It appeared to degrade over time and later results gave several "hang fires" and the results on target opened groups quite a bit. When I changed to REAL BP I never got ANY hang fires and the results on target were very consistent. I've only tried PYRODEX and never used any other substitute so I'm unsure about results using others. I will say BP works now and next year. I think I read that Mike Venturino, an outdoor writer and competitive BPCR shooter, has used real BP that was several decades old and it produced the same results as modern BP.
 
FFG, and you're good to go. If you have FFFG it will also work, and possibly ignite quicker, but back down your charge a bit too.
 
if your ml is 50 cal try 10 gr 3fg on bottom then 70 gr pyrodex loose on top ...you can go up or down on pyro from there ...speed is fine accuracy is final.......twist in rifling ..1in24...28...etc stic to sabot bullet combo..1 in 36 to 1 in 72 look at patched round ball or plastic r ball cup if you can get some ...try p.r.bullets for selection ...this powder combo leaves some lower fouling ..1 to 3 inches ...then pyrodex rs leaves only a light grease type residue in rest of bbl you can push past 3f fouling the pyro greasy fouling will allow lots of consistent shots before cleaning with w d 40 lots...... then finish with bore butter or ski doo storage oil clean well check after a few days.....loose powder is easier to fine tune than pellets...ignition is fixed with the 3 f ..keep the loads well compressed and be constant...good luck.....
 
black or other

if your ml is 50 cal try 10 gr 3fg on bottom then 70 gr pyrodex loose on top ...you can go up or down on pyro from there ...speed is fine accuracy is final.......twist in rifling ..1in24...28...etc stic to sabot bullet combo..1 in 36 to 1 in 72 look at patched round ball or plastic r ball cup if you can get some ...try p.r.bullets for selection ...this powder combo leaves some lower fouling ..1 to 3 inches ...then pyrodex rs leaves only a light grease type residue in rest of bbl you can push past 3f fouling the pyro greasy fouling will allow lots of consistent shots before cleaning with w d 40 lots...... then finish with bore butter or ski doo storage oil clean well check after a few days.....loose powder is easier to fine tune than pellets...ignition is fixed with the 3 f ..keep the loads well compressed and be constant...good luck.....
 
Welcome to Holy Black. In a traditional, loose powder is the way to go. Your 2F should do well, you might want to try 3F, especially if you're using a smaller than .50. As mentioned, Pyrodex is not a good choice in a flintlock unless you're prepared to use a duplex charge. But, if you're going to buy Black in order to do that, why complicate things? On that note, if you do have a flintlock, you don't HAVE to use 4F for priming. Pyrodex is reported to lose effectiveness, over time, once the can is opened. If it's just for plinking, it'll likely serve you well for that. As to which is more corrosive, there's some dispute regardless, they both produce corrosive fouling and need to be properly cleaned ASAP when you're done. Plain WARM (not hot) water with maybe a bit of Dawn soap works as well as anything for cleaning.

Myself, I scrub out the barrel, run a dry patch or two through, WD-40 to deal with any water not absorbed by the patches, dry patch and then oil with Break Free. WD is not designed as a rust preventative although it may work to an extent. Some folks swear by Bore Butter for that, some swear at it. Different folks, different strokes.

What kind of Muzzleloader do you have? Do you know the twist rate? 1 in 48 is the most common in modern ones like a Hawken or Lyman Plains Rifle but other twists may be encountered. This will affect what type of projectile will work best, slower twists work better for round ball. 1 in 48 is a good compromise that works well for all bullets, just maybe not the optimum for any particular style.

Check out blackpowderrifleaccuracy and order a copy of Dutch’s system. He’s a great guy and has forgotten more than most people will ever learn. He can be found on Traditional Muzzleloading Forum as well. Send cash, postal money orders don’t work when he tries to cash them and for some reason Canadians can’t use a credit card. When corresponding use large font, capitals or even bold type. He's having the dickens of a time reading with very poor eyesight. Haven't had a chance to try it out yet myself, got it late last year and the range is still snowed in but lots of very satisfied customers.

As far as shooting supplies, I’ve yet to find a truly great online supplier in Canada. Hillfolks in Saskatchewan seems to be well regarded but last time I checked they weren’t online. I have purchased from Track Of The Wolf and The Gun Works (in Springfield, Oregon) and can recommend both. Rustywood in Mission seems to be a good supplier of powder, never shopped with them.

Make good smoke.
 
Also you'll get fouling build up with every shot, to the extent that it may become extrememly difficult to load after just a few shots. What I was taught and works well for me is to run a damp, not soaking wet, swab down after you've loaded. Some foks will run a wet swab then one or two dry patches before loading and it works fine.
 
My muzzleloader is a TC renegade .50 percussion.
I have a bunch of balls and patches I plan on using .
I went out today to find some powder because my supply of goex ff is getting low... to my suprise none of my local shops will bring in black powder any longer and only carry substitutes. I guess shipping fees have gotten to high.
So I will either have to find some and pay the fees or find a suitable substitute.
Thanks fo all the info so far everyone.
 
You probably won't find any issue with Pyrodex unless you keep an opened can around too long. Can't speak for other subs. A lot of stores are reluctant to carry genuine black anymore.

What province are you in?
 
BP is classified as a mild explosive. Think WWI and WWII battle ships. Hence few big box stores want to deal with the storage requirements.

I have by far had the best results using BP, followed by T-7. Don't like Pyrodex at all.

If you can, source some Goex BP.

M
 
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I don't guess the airlines would be very impressed with me packing a couple pounds of goex in my luggage. .

Nooooo, don't pack that stuff in your luggage please.

A friend of mine blew some beaver dams that were backing up a creek through his property using BP. This after the municipalities attempts with dynamite failed.

Sooo, treat that stuff with due respect.

M
 
Long way around the barn but at this point I think your best option is to check at the gun stores and clubs to track down a muzzleloading club. Some of them might do a bulk purchase which would help cut down the HazMat and shipping fees and maybe the cost of the powder itself. Buying by the pound at my "local" store I paid $36/lb last time I purchased, some places were $45+.

Quick search shows Annapolis Valley Shooting Sports Club has a black powder section.
 
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