Blowing up your shotgun with brass shells

[Win 38-55]

Gents, I'm making this a separate thread from the BP shotgun thread, because this one is narrowly focused.

There is one big warning on various internet sites regarding using brass shells in double barrelled shotguns. Specifically, the cartridge in the second barrel gets its shot load shoved forward during the recoil of the first barrel. The shooter then fires the second barrel with the shotload already partway down the barrel and ends up bulging or blowing up the barrel. The solution that some use is to put a card over the shot, and then pour in a thin layer of 'Waterglass' (sodium silicate, available at the pharmacy).

Question for those who actually use brass cartridges in their 12 gauge and use Waterglass to seal and anchor the overshot card and shoot these loads in a double barrel.

How many years have you been doing this?

Approximately how many brass case/waterglass rounds have you fired?

Have you ever observed the waterglass-sealed brass cases getting the shotload breaking the waterglass seal?

 

[Killer Kanuck]

I've only tinkered with them, firing a couple dozen of them. But all in a double, and no issues. I'd imagine the CASCity board would be a good place to ask that, as there's bound to be plenty of guys shooting brass hulls out of doubles over there.

 

[dingus]

I would like to know this also and how would brass shells work in a 1887 winchester Lever action tube feed shotgun?

 

[mooncoon]

I would like to know this also and how would brass shells work in a 1887 winchester Lever action tube feed shotgun?

I think you would probably have feed problems in a lever action and I also think you may have to use 2 5/8" shells. Longer ones will go in loaded but not come out after firing. When I had a Winchester, I also had extraction problems because I assume the chamber was either a bit bulged or rough and the extractors are very narrow and just rip right through the rims.
I have only shot a few brass shells (lots of plastic) in my damascus doubles and I used Lepages glue and checked between shots and found no problem. Concievably in a hunting situation with shells in and out of the gun and rattling around in your pocket and multiple firings of the right barrel, the top wad could come loose.

cheers mooncoon

 

[dingus]

I think you would probably have feed problems in a lever action and I also think you may have to use 2 5/8" shells. Longer ones will go in loaded but not come out after firing. When I had a Winchester, I also had extraction problems because I assume the chamber was either a bit bulged or rough and the extractors are very narrow and just rip right through the rims.
I have only shot a few brass shells (lots of plastic) in my damascus doubles and I used Lepages glue and checked between shots and found no problem. Concievably in a hunting situation with shells in and out of the gun and rattling around in your pocket and multiple firings of the right barrel, the top wad could come loose.

cheers mooncoon

Yes i know the Shells need to be shorter to work in a 1887 but thats no troble as i have to get my brass made from solid stock on a CNC Lathe for my Idea
But the brass would be good if its 2 and 5/8 long as with the Card glued in the brass dont get longer when fired they shoyld eject well.
My chamber will be minty and im getting a gun with the Two extractors not the early single extractor ones.
Im hopeing its gona work my idea LOL

 

[mooncoon]

Yes i know the Shells need to be shorter to work in a 1887 but thats no troble as i have to get my brass made from solid stock on a CNC Lathe for my Idea
But the brass would be good if its 2 and 5/8 long as with the Card glued in the brass dont get longer when fired they shoyld eject well.
My chamber will be minty and im getting a gun with the Two extractors not the early single extractor ones.
Im hopeing its gona work my idea LOL

I can't remember the brand of shells that I have but they are a little over $1 each in a box of 25. Makes it hard to justify using lathe turned shells unless you own the lathe and even then I question the economy. The problem I would anticipate with brass shells is the sharp corner at the mouth of the shell rather than a rounded end in the case of crimped shells. Also the gun that had was a two extractor type and it tore through rims like nobodies business and yet the shells would knock out with a stick quite easly. A double gun with the broad extractor probably has double the amount of area engaging the rim.
The winchester lever action was very easy to operate from the point of view of effort and if you ignored the problems with extraction.

cheers mooncoon

 

[dingus]

I can't remember the brand of shells that I have but they are a little over $1 each in a box of 25. Makes it hard to justify using lathe turned shells unless you own the lathe and even then I question the economy. The problem I would anticipate with brass shells is the sharp corner at the mouth of the shell rather than a rounded end in the case of crimped shells. Also the gun that had was a two extractor type and it tore through rims like nobodies business and yet the shells would knock out with a stick quite easly. A double gun with the broad extractor probably has double the amount of area engaging the rim.
The winchester lever action was very easy to operate from the point of view of effort and if you ignored the problems with extraction.

cheers mooncoon

Intresting Can the extractors be improved by makeing the area they grab the rim by Bigger?
As far as brass im talking about a 14 Ga conversion so im stuck with CNC brass.
I never thought about the rounded front edge tho... Maby the brass can be chamfered a little on its outside edge to help..

 

[catnthehatt]

Gents, I'm making this a separate thread from the BP shotgun thread, because this one is narrowly focused.

There is one big warning on various internet sites regarding using brass shells in double barrelled shotguns. Specifically, the cartridge in the second barrel gets its shot load shoved forward during the recoil of the first barrel. The shooter then fires the second barrel with the shotload already partway down the barrel and ends up bulging or blowing up the barrel. The solution that some use is to put a card over the shot, and then pour in a thin layer of 'Waterglass' (sodium silicate, available at the pharmacy).

Question for those who actually use brass cartridges in their 12 gauge and use Waterglass to seal and anchor the overshot card and shoot these loads in a double barrel.

How many years have you been doing this?

Approximately how many brass case/waterglass rounds have you fired?

Have you ever observed the waterglass-sealed brass cases getting the shotload breaking the waterglass seal?

I've been shooting brass in my SXS's for about 12 years now, and have NEVER seen this problem.
I cannot fathom a shotload halfway down a barrel and with resitance enough to cause that kind of a pressure spike.
I have used spray contact cement, crazy glue, and latly just a dab of silicone to seal my shells.
I use FFG and Pyrodex in my guns, and they kill flying things and clay birds quite well!
Cat

 

[mooncoon]

Intresting Can the extractors be improved by makeing the area they grab the rim by Bigger?
As far as brass im talking about a 14 Ga conversion so im stuck with CNC brass.
I never thought about the rounded front edge tho... Maby the brass can be chamfered a little on its outside edge to help..

It would be much easier to bush the chamber to the 14 guage greener police shell and those can be made very easily from plastic Win AA shells but not from field load type shells. If the gun is currently 12 guage, that means you do not have to change the extractors. I can natter at you about that tomorrow.
Making the extractors wider and obviously altering the cuts in the barrel to match would definitely help if there is a tearing problem.
The problem with a 14 guage shell in a 12 or 10 guage barrel is that the pattern is extremely open or at least was when I tried it.

cheers mooncoon

 

[dingus]

It would be much easier to bush the chamber to the 14 guage greener police shell and those can be made very easily from plastic Win AA shells but not from field load type shells. If the gun is currently 12 guage, that means you do not have to change the extractors. I can natter at you about that tomorrow.
Making the extractors wider and obviously altering the cuts in the barrel to match would definitely help if there is a tearing problem.
The problem with a 14 guage shell in a 12 or 10 guage barrel is that the pattern is extremely open or at least was when I tried it.

cheers mooncoon

Whats this 14 Ga Greener ??? Im trying to get something not on that Stupid CFC list.
Anyway talk to you tomorrow about it. if 14 Ga greeners shells are easyer to come by than reg 14 ga thats what id do.
I remember reading the Eygption Police or prison gards had that shell made so no one could camber a 12 ga shell in a stollen gun by a prisoner ect.

 

[mooncoon]

I remember reading the Eygption Police or prison gards had that shell made so no one could camber a 12 ga shell in a stollen gun by a prisoner ect.

They were made for the Indian Police and are a 12 guage base necked down to 14 guage about 5/8" up from the bottom. The true greener police shell had a circular rebate in the base because the gun had 3 firing pins to prevent it shooting flat based shells. Main point however is that the 14 guage greener police chamber will not accept a standard 12 guage shell and the base of the chamber is considerably oversize for a 16 guage. Bottom line is that the shell is not on the no go list.

cheers mooncoon

 

[Win 38-55]

I've been shooting brass in my SXS's for about 12 years now, and have NEVER seen this problem.

Glad to hear that. My own suspicion is that if my reloading is properly done, as it always should be, I won't have the problem I hear about on the web.

 

[boogieman]

Greener shells are actually 12/14 gauge.From the case in my hand the first 1" from the primer is 12 gauge and the rest is 14 gauge.

I use white glue to hold the wad and have shot both in doubles and pump with no problems.

 

[mooncoon]

Greener shells are actually 12/14 gauge.From the case in my hand the first 1" from the primer is 12 gauge and the rest is 14 gauge.

I use white glue to hold the wad and have shot both in doubles and pump with no problems.

I tried bushing the chambers of a couple of my shotguns and rechambering them for the police shells. I made the shells from Win AA shells using a heated die (heated in boiling water) The method worked well with those shells but ordinary field shells of all brands will collapse when you try to form them. I used 16 guage fiber wads and 16 guage plastic shot cups (in different shells) in my trials but in the end reamed the chambers back to 12 guage because the patterns were so open. The method might work with very hot loadings which might expand the shot cup or the wad to fit the barrel but with black powder loads and with light smokeless loads the patterns were extremely open in both open choked and full choked guns, which is why I abandoned the idea. I suppose if I wanted the gun only for bears at 10 or 20 feet, the method would have merit but for a hunting or skeet gun, I felt it was useless.

cheers mooncoon

 

[Dantforth]

MagTech makes 14 guage brass shells don't they? They are about $17.50 for twenty-five in the good old USA. Why are you guys not using a 1/8" wad from "Circle Fly Wads" to top the case and then crimp the brass over a bit like putting a crimp on a bullet for a rifle? Just a thought. Dave