Blown up 50 Cal.
- Thread starter 350 Mag
- Start date
Are you sure? I would have assumed they had two functions, first being the make sure the cap is screwed in all the way and second they serve at a sort of safety lug, similar to the 3rd lug found towards the back of the bolt on a mauser 98.
Even if it's not part of the design, it would take some energy to sheer them off like what happened in the video.
The problem is that the design is not fail-safe!
A standard Remington 700 action will take 300,000 PSI before failing and has multiple fail-safe features so that high pressure gas will vent before reaching this pressure level (high quality brass cases fail at around 85,000 PSI).
I’ve had 3 scary incidents over the last 35 years and a fail-safe design transformed a potential catastrophe into a very scary experience (Remington 700 using reloads and Ruger Mini-14 using quality factory ammunition).
If you shoot enough ammunition, something scary will happen sooner or later and then a well designed firearm will save the day (same is true with driving a car).
A R700 will take 300,000 PSI? How so? 4140 steel has an ultimate tensile strength of some 95,000 PSI, if my quick 'net search produced accurate information.
Probably doesn't matter, since the brass will have failed long before that pressure is reached, and it is the failure of the brass that releases the gas when a breech failure occurs.
Those ears on the lower would reduce wobble between the upper and lower, helping to insure alignment, and would insure that the breech cap was screwed all the way on. The upper and lower could not be closed if the cap was not on.
But they are just steel plate, part of the left and right lower sidewalls. They broke off when the cap released, same time as the pivot pin failed.
Probably doesn't matter, since the brass will have failed long before that pressure is reached, and it is the failure of the brass that releases the gas when a breech failure occurs.
Those ears on the lower would reduce wobble between the upper and lower, helping to insure alignment, and would insure that the breech cap was screwed all the way on. The upper and lower could not be closed if the cap was not on.
But they are just steel plate, part of the left and right lower sidewalls. They broke off when the cap released, same time as the pivot pin failed.
I’m regurgitating what I read eons ago on Remington 700 triple ring of steel design.
The 300,000 PSI might be 3 x 95,000 PSI ?!?
I’ll do a quick search to see if I cannot find the source material.
Also, the idea was that there was a safe path to vent high pressure gas in every layer of the design. Even today, many rifle will simply propel part of the rifle at very high velocity rather than allowing the rifle to “deflate safely”.
I have told the story a number of times about the 700 brought into my shop which had been fired with a steel rod in the barrel. The bullet stopped in the bore.
The rifle was in one piece, the bolt was ruined, the face counterbore being broken. No parts were ejected, and the shooter, although shaken, did not receive a scratch.
I consider that to be a triumph of fail safe design. It is more than the strength of quality material; it is the thought that went into the design.
The rifle was in one piece, the bolt was ruined, the face counterbore being broken. No parts were ejected, and the shooter, although shaken, did not receive a scratch.
I consider that to be a triumph of fail safe design. It is more than the strength of quality material; it is the thought that went into the design.
That calcualtion I provideed earlier determines the maximum allowable pressure applied to the cap which would cause it to shear the threaded lugs. You could consider the force method too by appling F=P*A for the case head of the 50BMG. Certain other cartridges do in fact have higher rated pressures however because they act on a smaller area, the backwards thrust on the bolt lugs is less than a larger cartridge with less pressure. Same reason shotgun cartridges can blow the breech with significantly lower pressures. a 50kpsi 50 BMG has 25384 lbf of both thrust, while a 70kpsi 30-06 will only have 12196 lbf of bolt thrust. Big stuff gets rather scary quicly when dealing with design criteria.
Yes, the relatively massive diameter of the .50BMG cartridge head is certainly going to apply a lot of backthrust. That would increase the load on the locking system, whether it is a bolt with lugs engaging the receiver with the barrel threaded into it, or a breech cap screwed onto the barrel. There is a fundamental similarity. From the standpoint of resisting the backthrust, I'm not sure that one would be stronger than the other.
One explanation could be that there was a structural material failure in the breech which allowed the cap to depart.
The other explanation is that excess pressure caused a cartridge case failure which released high pressure gas into the breech - and the breeching system could not handle the gas release.
One explanation could be that there was a structural material failure in the breech which allowed the cap to depart.
The other explanation is that excess pressure caused a cartridge case failure which released high pressure gas into the breech - and the breeching system could not handle the gas release.
coleman1495
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Whitecourt
Someone needs to do some third party proof testing on one of these rifles. Use a powder thats too fast and fill the case full.Two things that would be interesting are:
-How easy is it to blow it up. IMO 85k psi doesn’t leave much room for error.
-Does it always turn into a pipe bomb?
-How easy is it to blow it up. IMO 85k psi doesn’t leave much room for error.
-Does it always turn into a pipe bomb?
New Camper
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lurking in the woods near SFRC.
Yes indeed, but you know how it is: "muh trigger pulled itself and shot someone... bad gun"
No one gets to bankrupt a gun company when irresponsible product use is to blame. I was surprised the subject 50cal rifle will reliably fail at only a factor of 1.3 when so many other rifles will probably withstand a slow powder charge weight of pistol powder. Sure one mustn't rely on manufacturer's to alleviate personal responsibility but I'd never let such a low factor out my factory door if I manufactured arms... especially in today's litigious society.
There is no better design in a two locking lug bolt action than the old 700 Remington. The strongest and safest two lug bolt action ever made.
The design of this failed .50 caliber is scary... I just can't imagine putting your head behind that chamber...
Leviathan024
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- GP Alberta
Is this a joke?
I'm surprised it only took 26 minutes for this guy to flap his gums about this event...
One minute of his bull #### was enough for me... an obstruction within the brake would have caused the barrel to rupture at the brake... no so much increasing the chamber pressure to what it experienced. Rifle have blown up when cleaning rods were left in the bore against the loaded round... typically barrels blow up where the obstruction is... He likes to hear himself flap his gums alright ... his opening sentence convinced me of that...
His channel is full of goofy stuff. He teaches out of old military manuals that are decades old and outdated.
The precision rifle world has advanced way beyond the doctrine he's slinging. Much better instructors out there then him.
