Blr difficult to eject

Ron AKA said:
I think the Larry Willis dies are a bit of a scam. He promotes them for preventing case head separation in belted magnums. Case head separation is caused by full length resizing a case over and over to give excessive headspace each time, and the resulting case stretching. It is aggravated by having an excessively long chamber. That is not fixed with a Larry Willis die. It is fixed by not oversizing your brass. Bump the shoulder 0.001" and no more.
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His collet dies are "NOT" a scam, if you adjust the die for minimum shoulder bump the die stops resizing further up from the belt. When you resize the belted case to headspace on its shoulder you "MAY" need the collet die to reduce the case diameter just above the belt.

If you would simply Google the subject you would find many shooters saying it solved their belted case problems. (instead of guessing)

The problem is some dies and brands of brass are not reduced in diameter above the belt and rub and bind when chambered.

This is no different than having to use a small base die with a standard non-belted case and reducing the base diameter to SAAMI minimum.

Dies are made to plus and minus tolerances and if the die is on the plus side (a fat diameter) the base of the case may not be reduced in diameter enough to fit the chamber properly.

Making the base of the case smaller in diameter is not a scam, it is a fact of life with some chambers and dies.
 
I did a little research on your gun, as I was quite amazed that any gun manufacturer would actually chamber a lever action in a 7mm Rem Mag. You are not the only one having hard ejection problems, although most with a problem seem to have the .308. My conclusion is that the mechanical advantage of the lever action is low, and any fight from the cartridge makes it very difficult to operate compared to the bolt on a bolt action. The 7mm cartridge has minimal taper and is quite long compared to say a 30-30. Also keep in mind that a 30-30 maximum rated pressure is 43,000 psi, while a 7mm is rated at 61,000. So, I think it is a combination of an action that can't handle a sticky case very well, and a high pressure long cartridge.

My thoughts are that you might get some advantage out of a slower powder and reduced loads (less pressure). I would suggest the Hodgdon H1000 for powder. I don't think you will gain anything with a small base die. You did not indicate you had chambering issues with a new or sized cartridge. A small base die would help with chambering a sized cartridge, but is going to provide little to no help with a fired cartridge.
 
Ron AKA said:
I don't think you will gain anything with a small base die. You did not indicate you had chambering issues with a new or sized cartridge. A small base die would help with chambering a sized cartridge, but is going to provide little to no help with a fired cartridge.
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When a cartridge is fired it expands to meet the chamber walls and then springs back from the chamber walls for reliable extraction.

In a semiautomatic it is recommended the resized case be .003 to .005 smaller in diameter than its fired size for reliable extraction.

The main reason for using a small base die or making the case a smaller diameter is because the case springs back to a smaller diameter after firing and not bind on ejection.

centerfire said:
Hey guys I got a new blr here in 7mm Remington mag using my reloads I have difficulty cycling the lever down to retract and eject the brass after firing they load and slide in with ease but once fired are very difficult to retract and eject. Unfired ejects with ease and has no sigh sigh of high pressure. Cases are trimmed with lee case trimmer. It works fine with a factory load. I am using hornady custom dies with A # 5 hornady shell holder thanks in advance!
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His resized cases are not small enough in diameter "AFTER" resizing and not springing back as far as a smaller diameter factory loaded cartridge.


Where is sunray when you really need him? :bangHead:
 
When I first got my .300 WM and started reloading for it. I also had a buddy with a .300wm in a Ruger. We were moose hunting and we game across a nice bull He got a shot or two and it was down but it needed to be finished off as it was still kicking pretty good. I cannot remember why but he needed a shell from me to finish it off but my reloads would not chamber in his rifle. I had to pass him my rifle to do it. So after that I started checking into the reason why, There were a lot of ideas out there for the cause but the best explanation seem to be what I found on Larrys site. We measured some of his fired cases and they were a .001 or 2 smaller then the ones out of 3 other .300wm rifles. So it seemed like he had a tighter chamber then the other 3. The collet die from Larry has a spec. opening on the one end that you can insert the unseized and then the sized case into to make sure the reloads chamber. So if his reloads chamber with no difficulty maybe he indeed may have a pressure issue.
Or hopefully not he may have a chamber issue. I have a .308 with a chamber issue no matter what I shoot in it it has a hard time extracting the case.


bigedp51 said:
Many belted dies do not size the case enough just above the belt and this can cause chambering and extraction problems.

Use a black felt tip marker and blacken the entire case and then chamber, looking for rub marks.

At the link below Larry Willis sells a collet die that sizes the case just above the belt. If you Google your problem you will see that the main cause of this problem is the case being too large a diameter just above the belt.

http://www.larrywillis.com/

If you have a vernier caliper you can measure new unfired cases above the belt, then a fired case and then a resized case to see if it it sized enough.

Again if you Google the subject many people with belted magnums have this problem.

Also remember we live in a plus and minus manufacturing world and chambers and dies vary in size. Meaning with another brand of die you "might" not have the same problem.
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I have factory loaded Federal .223/5.56 cases with over sized primer pockets after the first firing.

The hardness of your brass has a great deal to do with its spring back ability when fired.

I have a Remington 760 Gamemaster pump in 30-06 and before that a 760 in .270 Win and never had a extraction problem as long as the cases were full length resized. (Remington cases)

How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/05/how-hard-is-your-brass-5-56-and-223-rem-base-hardness-tests/

Some brands of softer brass and dies on the + plus side of manufacturing limits can cause problems. It as simple as that and all you need to do is measure the diameter of your cases before and after sizing.
 
As I understand it, the probl;em is hard extraction, but chambering is not an issue. First thing that should be done is make sure the chamber is clean. If the chamber has any rough spots or is dirty it will severely hamper extraction.

If the round is chambering Ok, the problem is likely not the brass or sizing.
 
wce323078 said:
When I first got my .300 WM and started reloading for it. I also had a buddy with a .300wm in a Ruger. We were moose hunting and we game across a nice bull He got a shot or two and it was down but it needed to be finished off as it was still kicking pretty good. I cannot remember why but he needed a shell from me to finish it off but my reloads would not chamber in his rifle.
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I have a .264 WM in a Remington 700, and the same cartridge in a Browning. The fired and reloaded cases from day one would not fit in the other gun. Remington does not fit Browning, and Browning does not fit Remington. The Browning was rebarreled and the same situation exists. It is obviously not unusual for fired cases from one gun not to fit another. And, it is not as simple as one chamber is smaller and the other larger, or the casings from the smaller chamber would fit the larger chamber gun. The other moral in this story is not to use range brass. Just asking for trouble.
 
Ron AKA said:
I did a little research on your gun, as I was quite amazed that any gun manufacturer would actually chamber a lever action in a 7mm Rem Mag. You are not the only one having hard ejection problems, although most with a problem seem to have the .308. My conclusion is that the mechanical advantage of the lever action is low, and any fight from the cartridge makes it very difficult to operate compared to the bolt on a bolt action. The 7mm cartridge has minimal taper and is quite long compared to say a 30-30. Also keep in mind that a 30-30 maximum rated pressure is 43,000 psi, while a 7mm is rated at 61,000. So, I think it is a combination of an action that can't handle a sticky case very well, and a high pressure long cartridge.

My thoughts are that you might get some advantage out of a slower powder and reduced loads (less pressure). I would suggest the Hodgdon H1000 for powder. I don't think you will gain anything with a small base die. You did not indicate you had chambering issues with a new or sized cartridge. A small base die would help with chambering a sized cartridge, but is going to provide little to no help with a fired cartridge.
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DUDE ........ you do know the blr is nothing more than a browning bar with a lever attached right ?

also have you looked at the bolt head and action of a blr ? it is extremely strong and has a lot of surface area on the locking lugs .

for all intents and purposes it is a extremely strong and funny looking bolt action rifle .....
 
Ron AKA said:
I wonder why the OP and many others have problems with hard ejection of cases then...
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i've had a couple , one i still own from new 25 years ago and they function flawlessly , even with hotly loaded ammo and necked sized cases .

dirty ammo , dirty bolt , dirty chamber is the first thing i'd look at .

does it work with factory ammo , or only handloads ?

they have made these guns for over 40 years in every cartridge imaginable , all without issue .
 
Reloading Belted Magnums (Questions & Answers)
http://www.larrywillis.com/answers.html

1. What causes belted magnum cases to not chamber after the second or third firing?

This is caused when fired cases have expanded to the exact size of the chamber, and they don't get properly resized. The required pressure from reloading doesn't help either. A slight "bulge" forms just above the belt (at the pressure ring), and it never gets fully reduced by using conventional resizing dies. That is why I designed the Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die.

2. Why can't conventional full length sizing dies reduce the "bulge" on belted magnum cases?

Belted cases prevent conventional FL resizing dies from traveling far enough down the case. In order to reduce any given area of your case, a resizing die needs to travel about .100" beyond contacting that area, just to reduce the diameter by .001". Then the case is withdrawn and the brass "springs back" slightly. Have you ever noticed the tension that is felt when you start to withdraw a lubed case from a resizing die? You're feeling tight fitting brass at the transition of the case web as it "springs back". Small base dies have the same problem with belted cases, except they can also "shave" cases, and they'll still get some "spring back".
 
bigedp51 said:
Reloading Belted Magnums (Questions & Answers)
http://www.larrywillis.com/answers.html

1. What causes belted magnum cases to not chamber after the second or third firing?

This is caused when fired cases have expanded to the exact size of the chamber, and they don't get properly resized. The required pressure from reloading doesn't help either. A slight "bulge" forms just above the belt (at the pressure ring), and it never gets fully reduced by using conventional resizing dies. That is why I designed the Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die.

2. Why can't conventional full length sizing dies reduce the "bulge" on belted magnum cases?

Belted cases prevent conventional FL resizing dies from traveling far enough down the case. In order to reduce any given area of your case, a resizing die needs to travel about .100" beyond contacting that area, just to reduce the diameter by .001". Then the case is withdrawn and the brass "springs back" slightly. Have you ever noticed the tension that is felt when you start to withdraw a lubed case from a resizing die? You're feeling tight fitting brass at the transition of the case web as it "springs back". Small base dies have the same problem with belted cases, except they can also "shave" cases, and they'll still get some "spring back".
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OP said that cartridges chamber without any problem and unfired cartridges extract fine. Only fired cartridges are giving extraction problems. That probably means the brass/sizing is not an issue since the cartridges chamber without issue.
 
jethunter said:
OP said that cartridges chamber without any problem and unfired cartridges extract fine. Only fired cartridges are giving extraction problems. That probably means the brass/sizing is not an issue since the cartridges chamber without issue.
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Some dies do not size the belted case just above the belt enough and cause extraction problems.

And until the OP measures a new case, a fired case and a resized case above the belt we will not have any answers besides guessing.
 
Both Hodgdon and Nolser load data says that 60gr of IMR 4350 is Max load for a 162grain bullet. I would suggest you start with min load and work up .5 grains at a time and then stop when you start to get hard extraction then back of a grain or so.
 
Ron AKA said:
Nothing. I have one in a 30-30, but in a 7mm Rem Mag? The second worst gun my father ever owned was a Remington pump action 30-06. Kicked like a horse and shot like a shotgun. His worst gun was an army surplus Lee Enfield.
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Then he was likely doing something wrong if he couldn't get a Remington pump rifle to shoot well. In my experience (owning/shooting half a dozen or so) they shoot quite well, and recoil is manageable albeit the rifle is on the light side (especially the one I have right now, which is an older 760 chambered in 270 with a synthetic stock and Williams receiver sight).
 
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