Bluing!

H Wally

H Wally

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Two solid questions for you guys:

1) How do I get the Birchwood Casey Super Blu to STOP bluing? I blued my shotgun and now unless it has a heavy coat of oil on it, it rusts like mad. Any suggestions? Does boiling it work to neutralise it like in rust bluing?

2) Where do I get rust bluing solution??? I have been told it's hard to find, but for those who have found it, where's a good place to start, or where does it originate? Where can it be imported from? I'm in BC if that helps.

I can guarantee that answering these questions will have a very positive result for at least a little of the gun community, but I'm not saying how for now;)
 
H Wally said:
Two solid questions for you guys:

1) How do I get the Birchwood Casey Super Blu to STOP bluing? I blued my shotgun and now unless it has a heavy coat of oil on it, it rusts like mad. Any suggestions? Does boiling it work to neutralise it like in rust bluing?

2) Where do I get rust bluing solution??? I have been told it's hard to find, but for those who have found it, where's a good place to start, or where does it originate? Where can it be imported from? I'm in BC if that helps.

I can guarantee that answering these questions will have a very positive result for at least a little of the gun community, but I'm not saying how for now;)
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I've used the LAUREL MOUNTAIN BARREL BROWN & DEGREASER from Brownells with very good result. It is the only rust bluing solution that they stock that they will send to Canada.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=7780&title=BARREL%20BROWN%20&%20DEGREASER
 
I'm going to attempt to mix up my own. From research on the web, I've found that you need nitric acid, hydrochloric acid and some iron nails. You dissolve the iron nails in the nitric acid. I'm not sure of the potency of the acid, but I'm thinking that if you dab it on it must be a lot weaker than in the techniques where you fume it on. After the rust has built up, the parts are boiled boiling in water for 30 minutes and the scrubbed with a clean wire brush (carding). Repeat process until desired finish is attained.

As I said, I haven't tried it yet, but I'll post some info about it when I get around to doing it.
 
After the bluing solution has been applied for about 1 minute and burnished with steel wool, the work piece should be rinsed in cold water to stop the bluing process and then a coat of oil applied and allow to sink in. Bluing is a controlled rusting process. You can apply as many coats as you want and when the oil finally stops being absorbed the rusting should stop.
 
I don't understand the results you are getting, the rust. I've used Super Blue and fortunately not had a rust problem that I could possibly attribute to the bluing process. I blued, then washed off bluing afterwards with water, wiped it down, then oiled it. Nothing special for oil, either a light machine oil or G96.
 
shoshin said:
I'm going to attempt to mix up my own. From research on the web, I've found that you need nitric acid, hydrochloric acid and some iron nails. You dissolve the iron nails in the nitric acid. I'm not sure of the potency of the acid, but I'm thinking that if you dab it on it must be a lot weaker than in the techniques where you fume it on. After the rust has built up, the parts are boiled boiling in water for 30 minutes and the scrubbed with a clean wire brush (carding). Repeat process until desired finish is attained.

As I said, I haven't tried it yet, but I'll post some info about it when I get around to doing it.
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Please do! I love doing things myself, so it's fun to figure out how stuff works.

Mauser98 said:
I've used the LAUREL MOUNTAIN BARREL BROWN & DEGREASER from Brownells with very good result. It is the only rust bluing solution that they stock that they will send to Canada.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=7780&title=BARREL%20BROWN%20&%20DEGREASER
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Excellent. I know you've helped me out on this before, I just couldn't pick up where to get it from.

Grizzlypeg said:
I don't understand the results you are getting, the rust. I've used Super Blue and fortunately not had a rust problem that I could possibly attribute to the bluing process. I blued, then washed off bluing afterwards with water, wiped it down, then oiled it. Nothing special for oil, either a light machine oil or G96.
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I heated it, blued it, repeated, then washed it clean and oiled it. Anywhere the oil came off from casual handling it grew a coat of rust within 12-24 hours. I've been holding off using it again until I can sort out what the cause of this was.

John Marshall said:
H wally, I am confused. Do you want bluing or browning? PM me if you need some help.
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Something to this effect: http://www.hobbygunsmith.com/Archives/Aug03/HowTo.htm
 
shoshin said:
I'm not sure of the potency of the acid
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Nitric and hydrochloric acid mixed together (aka aqua regia) is not to be trifled with. It is extremely corrosive and gets its fancy latin name "King's Water" from its ability to dissolve gold. Use it in a well ventilated area - NOx gas, chlorine gas, acid fumes can all damage your lungs in short order.

If your recipe calls for any dilutions, make sure you understand how to safely dissolve concentrated acid solutions. I.E. you NEVER add water to acid.

As the aqua regia works on the iron, it will neutralize the acid so the finished rust blue solution is not nearly as nasty to handle. Different recipes seem to exist - I was just reading a 19th century recipe used by English best shotgun makers that included urine!

PS if you are ordering from a chemical supply house, it should be easier to purchase pure iron rather than to source and clean iron nails.
 
MauserMike said:
Nitric and hydrochloric acid mixed together (aka aqua regia) is not to be trifled with. It is extremely corrosive and gets its fancy latin name "King's Water" from its ability to dissolve gold. Use it in a well ventilated area - NOx gas, chlorine gas, acid fumes can all damage your lungs in short order.

If your recipe calls for any dilutions, make sure you understand how to safely dissolve concentrated acid solutions. I.E. you NEVER add water to acid.

As the aqua regia works on the iron, it will neutralize the acid so the finished rust blue solution is not nearly as nasty to handle. Different recipes seem to exist - I was just reading a 19th century recipe used by English best shotgun makers that included urine!

PS if you are ordering from a chemical supply house, it should be easier to purchase pure iron rather than to source and clean iron nails.
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I agree. Safety first. The recipe I saw called for fuming with the Nitric acid and the HCL in separate glass jars, there was no mixing of the solutions. In this case, soultions were very potent. Good tip on the iron. Thanks.

Having said that, the acids that I have access to are fairly dilute, but it still sounds like a job for out at the farm, not in the garage at home. Besides, then I can go shooting while I'm waiting for the rust to form!
 
shoshin said:
I agree. Safety first. The recipe I saw called for fuming with the Nitric acid and the HCL in separate glass jars, there was no mixing of the solutions. In this case, soultions were very potent. Good tip on the iron. Thanks.

Having said that, the acids that I have access to are fairly dilute, but it still sounds like a job for out at the farm, not in the garage at home. Besides, then I can go shooting while I'm waiting for the rust to form!
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As I know nothing about these kind of things... you're going to have to post a very in depth tutorial:D

Just kidding ya' - but if you do a tutorial it will give me a solid starting point at least.
 
Side question - in the rust bluing I've read to use hot water to change it from red to black iron oxide.

Is this transferrable to the cold bluing solutions? Could hot water be used to rinse them after the bluing process, or does it have to be cold water?
 
Anyone considering mixing their own rust bluing solutions should get the book "Firearm Blueing and Browning" by R.H. Angier. There are dozens if not hundreds of formulas for different types of finishes and explanations of how to use them. It was written in 1936, but has been reprinted many times. I bought mine a couple of years ago at WSS. It is published by Stackpole Books, (www.stackpolebooks.com). Even better, there was a two part series of articles by Oscar Gaddy in the Double Gun Journal where he lists the ingredients of his blueing solutions and gives an excellent discription of his methods. He tweeked some of Angiers formulas with some more modern ingredients. I'll have to go though my DGJs to find the issues. These are rust blue solutions and methods, not express blue.
 
North of 58 said:
Anyone considering mixing their own rust bluing solutions should get the book "Firearm Blueing and Browning" by R.H. Angier. There are dozens if not hundreds of formulas for different types of finishes and explanations of how to use them. It was written in 1936, but has been reprinted many times. I bought mine a couple of years ago at WSS. It is published by Stackpole Books, (www.stackpolebooks.com). Even better, there was a two part series of articles by Oscar Gaddy in the Double Gun Journal where he lists the ingredients of his blueing solutions and gives an excellent discription of his methods. He tweeked some of Angiers formulas with some more modern ingredients. I'll have to go though my DGJs to find the issues. These are rust blue solutions and methods, not express blue.
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Great!! If you can scan or transcribe them it would be amazing!
 
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