Body Armour Sales to Civilians: Update 21 Mar & Post 105

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Beezer said:
Perhaps my tinfoil hat is on too tight, ;) but the UN does not believe people have the right to self-defence and using body armour is a form of self defence. Now the people that are directly behind banning the sale of Level 3 & Level 4 body armour to the public is our government and law enforcement. They may be afraid of criminals getting their hands on it but it is also keeps it out of the hands of law abiding citizens for no good reason.
Banning it from sale to the law abiding citizen will still not stop it from getting into the hands of criminals as they don't care about the rules.

The sharia law thing was out there I admit, but I was on a rant and it just came out.
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:) Been there, done that, lol. There is definately a trend happening though. Those in power everywhere, are consolidating their hold on power, often by limiting the ability to resist force with force. I believe that a true democracy requires the ability of the people to overthrow an unpopular government, by whatever means neccessary, in order for it to be valid. Otherwise the process is a farce. As Stalin said: “It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.”

Without power, the people are simple to manipulate.
 
The link will return over the weekend once I sort the skid of vests that just came in.

Ryan

harbl_the_cat said:
Looks like a lot of panic buying for Frontier was caused by this with their level IV Surplis Irish vests. There was almost 2 full pages yesterday, now their down to one.

I'm half tempted to get a 3rd set myself not knowing if the expired IV vests are kosher or not.

Kind of sucks though - I could never bring myself to spend $500+ for a new, legit set of rifle plates - I suppose the choice has been made for me.

SFRC, does this mean you will continue to stock and sell surplus level II vests? I noticed you took down the link on your site to the soft vests - you had it up just a few days ago.
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I will admit 30 seconds after reading the "body armor will be controlled" post I was screaming at the sponsors web site..... HURRY UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!! my wife was wondering what was going on.:redface::redface: I got one of the really nice Irish vests, there were only two on the site that were in "Excellent" shape at that point.




*Edit* I will be taking a look at the level II vests that SFRC has in stock soon as the wife needs one.
 
GtpSpecialEdition said:
*Edit* I will be taking a look at the level II vests that SFRC has in stock soon as the wife needs one.
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A nice way to beef those up without adding too much weight is to slip in a Serbian milsurp plate, front and back, available on eBay (available for the time being anyway ... or until the UN or Big Government catches on). I reckon eventually this open civvy trade will be stopped as well.

Stock up while you can!
 
i don't think plates actually expire. i've seen tests online where people shot up old armour and it worked fine
 
Chemist said:
After spending a good chunk of today on the phone with Controlled Goods, ECL, and the Controlled Goods inspector etc we were given a clearer view of this. Ryan
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Thank you. I know this could have meant lost sales (and thus lost income to you), but putting all the effort into this for a lot of people/retailers is in pretty good in my books.
 
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Unagi604 said:
i don't think plates actually expire. i've seen tests online where people shot up old armour and it worked fine
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The thing with the plates is they are fragile and it's pretty well impossible to tell if they have fractures on them or not. If a user dropped them repeatedly - they might have been cracked - and a crack undoubtedly compromises the integrity of the plate.

The expiration dates, especially on soft armour, are there so government agencies can negotiate lucrative support and replacement contracts, ensuring an unquestionable and steady flow of tax payer cash towards the well connected textile manufacturing companies. It doesn't matter if the armour is serviceable or not - what matters is big government coupling with big industry to funnel money to a small group of shareholders in those corporations.

This is the military industrial complex - and while it's a terrible system, it allows us peasants a good opportunity to procure serviceable equipment at bargain basement prices. It also has a potential benefit for our soldiers in that the armour that ends up in the basement of Canadian civilians is guaranteed not to end up strapped to the chest of a hostile insurgent in a country our military is occupying.

A 5.56 round at 800m fired from a 14.5” barrel has about as much energy as a .22LR projectile, and a level II vest will stop a .22 no problem.

So – Support the troops… buy a surplus level II Kevlar vest from SFRC or from other dealers here on CGN.
 
Travis Bickle said:
Now how am I supposed to impress the chicks at the range with my super tactical body armor!?

I'm going to be a virgin forever!! :(
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If they catch you buying lvl4 armour without a permit, I bet you wont be.

24a49_ORIG-Its_a_Tra_prison_Shower.jpg
 
Chemist said:
After spending a good chunk of today on the phone with Controlled Goods, ECL, and the Controlled Goods inspector etc we were given a clearer view of this.

Level I, 2, 2A and 3A are not controlled goods and are not regulated except by provincial body armour acts.

"The following interpretations explain
and amplify the terms used in this category
and throughout this subchapter: (1) The body
armor covered by this category does not include
Type 1, Type 2, Type 2a, or Type 3a as
defined by the National Institute of Justice
Classification;"

As such NIJ Lvl 3 and Lvl 4 is a controlled good and not available to sell to individuals not registered with controlled goods. We're currently seeking clarification if expired Lvl 3 and Lvl 4 are controlled as they would no longer meet the NIJ standards after 5 years.
Ryan
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So would a Level 3a vest with SAPI/ESAPI panels be classified as controlled goods or would the panels themself fall under controlled goods?
 
harbl_the_cat said:
A 5.56 round at 800m fired from a 14.5” barrel has about as much energy as a .22LR projectile, and a level II vest will stop a .22 no problem.
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Um, what happens to that Level II vest when that 5.56 round is shot from an 18.5 inch Mini 14 barrel at 80m? :p

The nice thing with (heavy) steel plates is you don't have to worry about fractures developing after dropping them -- unless that fracture is in your toe!
 
harbl_the_cat said:
The thing with the plates is they are fragile and it's pretty well impossible to tell if they have fractures on them or not. If a user dropped them repeatedly - they might have been cracked - and a crack undoubtedly compromises the integrity of the plate.
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If you run a Q-tip over the plate you will find the crack/fracture when cotton threads pull off the Q-tip. Done it myself.
 
Chemist said:
"The following interpretations explain and amplify the terms used in this category and throughout this subchapter: (1) The body armor covered by this category does not include Type 1, Type 2, Type 2a, or Type 3a as defined by the National Institute of Justice Classification;"
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@Ryan,
Good job seeking that "second opinion" I suggested in my earlier post. When things are this complicated and possibly span multiple departmental jurisdictions, a second opinion is always a good idea provided you have done your homework (research) and have something to give them as a starting point. At least now the picture is a little less fuzzy. Question though, which document did you get that reference to NIJ classification from? I don't doubt it's accurate but I'm stumped...I cannot find it in any of the laws, regulations, schedules, etc. I searched through.

@Beezer,
I rather suspect it would be just the armor plates being controlled. An empty carrier with no ballistic inserts is simply a fancy nylon garment.


'Fly
 
Bigfooter said:
Um, what happens to that Level II vest when that 5.56 round is shot from an 18.5 inch Mini 14 barrel at 80m? :p

The nice thing with (heavy) steel plates is you don't have to worry about fractures developing after dropping them -- unless that fracture is in your toe!
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There was a really interesting article in the Black Rifle forum about how most firefights against the Taliban were 300m and beyond.

They wisely wouldn't engage NATO troops at the ranges where their weapons were most effective. Come to think of it, if your preferred tactic was to beat feet and put as much distance between your enemy then engage them with mortar and indirect fire from a GPMG, a lightweight kevlar vest would be the perfect piece of kit.

There was a neat video in the video forum of a US soldier drawing fire from a Taliban fortification, that was probably that range. I bet the fire from his M4 would have done diddly squat, especially if his targets were lightly armoured.

I may have strong personal convictions against the war, but if our soldiers are their, I'd rather they have a tactical advantage. It costs next to nothing to lose a single Taliban insurgent. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to lose a single Canadian or American soldier.

Again, I reiterate, support the troops by keeping serviceable equipment out of the hands of their opposition. Buy several vests from SFRC.
 
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