Boer war guns

About Canadian and the Boer War;

http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/boer/boerwarhistory_e.html

The Canadians were issued Long Lee-Enfield, Colt .455 New Service Revolvers. http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/boer/weapons_e.html

England supplied 15 000 Long Lee-Enfield (adopted by Canada in 1896, in replacement the Lee-Metford) to Canada in 1899, but did not want to supply more, being themselves short in supply. This led Canada to look at something else and we ended up with the Ross.
This does not mean there was no other weapons used by the Canadian forces, especially within the first months of the war.

Lee-Enfield_303_Mk_I_Rifle.jpg


South_Africa_NAC_PA_173037.jpg


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During the first Boer War (Dec 16, 1880-Mar23, 1881) the Britsh were still using thier Martini-Henry's that served them well in the Zulu wars which had ended a year earlier. The Boers, however, had non stardardized weapons which included primarily Martini-Henry's obtained from service in the Zulu wars and the Westley-Richards "Monkey Tail" rifles. It was not, however, unheard of for there to be the odd Colt or Remington rifle to be used by the Boers as each individual supplied his own weapon. It is possible that your rifle is from this era rather than the second Boer War (1899-1902)
 
It's worth bearing in mind that the conversion dates for weapons of the British Army, for example between Snider-Enfield and Martini-Henry, did not apply to the 'Imperial' regiments - British officers but native troops - which provided the backbone of the military in British India and also in parts of Africa. By way of comparison, in India in 1880 there were more troops using Snider-Enfield rifles and Enfield muzzleloading rifles than there were Martini-Henry rifles, despite the British army having converted several years before. This was because the majority of troops in India were not British Army, but Indian Army - British officers but native troops. The Indian Army was the successor of the old East India Company Army, which came under Crown control after the Indian Mutiny in 1858 but was deliberately kept one step behind in weapons to dissuade native troops from rebelling again. As an example, the Queen's Own Madras Sappers and Miners, one of the elite Indian Army units, only converted from smoothbore percussion muskets to Enfield muzzleloading rifles in 1871, and from Enfield rifles to Snider-Enfield in 1875. The Hyderabad Regiment, the army of a 'Princely State', was one step behind that, having converted from muzzloading smoothbores to Enfield muzzleloading rifles only in 1878! These Indian regiments were not hic militia units given obsolete weapons, but among the best professional troops anywhere in the later 19th century, armed with weapons which were sufficient for what they were asked to do. Even in 1905, the Zhob Valley regiment, the irregular militia of British Baluchistan on the Afghan border, was still armed with Snider-Enfields - it was only after the border and Afghan tribesman began acquiring large numbers of Martini-Henrys about that time that the border militias were brought up to date. The 1899 Boar (sic) War was the first major colonial conflict of the Victorian period where the British were faced with an essentially European enemy, armed with weapons equal to or better than their own.
 
I think the reason the Indian troops were issued antiquated guns was that the British were afraid of a recurrence of the Sepoy Mutiny. I believe the British confiscated and destroyed all guns in private Indian hands following the mutiny, including matchlocks.

cheers mooncoon
 
Sure glad I didn't invest in mustach wax, just a passing fad, is all! LOL
Do you know what the Medal represents? All three seem to have different arm cheverons (if that's the proper name?) Do you know what rank they stand for?
 
there was only one medal given to my great grandfather the bars represent the campaigns he did Cape Colony, Natal, Transvaal and Orange free state.The Queen's South Africa Medal ribbon has a broad orange central stripe flanked by two dark blue stripes and red edges.As far as I know he was a corporal, and then when the war was finished he was promoted to Sergeant. I think I have a picture of him from the first world war as well.
 
Your lucky to have these pic. My Grandfather was in WW1 but I don't have any pics of him in uniform. He was wounded twice at Vimmy, so he must have had some medal somewheres, but I never saw them.
 
Well My cousins have his medal, Transcript papers, pictures of him in SA right down to a little book on his regiment.

Mine was at Ypres,Somme and fought in the Canadian Army.He came down with rheumatic fever and by 1917 and was sent home.Save his life no doubt because I wouldn't be here thats for sure.

From what I was told he was in the Winnipeg rifles, "Black Devils"

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Actually, the nickname for the Winnipeg Rifles is "The Black Devils", or "The Little Black Devils" .....

They earned that sobriquet when they went into the field in their Rifle Black uniforms during the 1885 North West Rebellion, employing the best Rifles tactics (i.e. making full use of cover, open order skirmishing, etc.) and causing one of the Métis leaders to exclaim something like: "I know about the red coat soldiers.... but who are those little black devils?"
 
Hostie Acie Nominati - Named By The Enemy In Battle. I know several guys from the Rifles, still a good regiment.
 
The Boers declared war on the British, not the other way round.

They probably thought that the British would settle after a defeat or two, the way they did under Gladstone. Bad psychology, but then that doesn't seem to be strong point with some peoples.

The scorched earth policy was a response to the Boer guerrilla campaign after the end of formal hostilities. A pointless campaign waged for no apparent reason than stubbornness and of no benefit to anyone but the British for whom it provided an excellent training opportunity.

The greatest problem the British had was that their rifles were not individually sighted when built, only a selection were. The sights were often out by yards at longer ranges. In the days of volley firing, mostly at close range, this was thought good enough.

After getting "no end of a lesson" in South Africa, the British focused on precisely sighting all their rifles, standardizing on a shorter, handier SMLE and making their soldier's expert riflemen. They also learned a great deal about fire and movement and concealment.

The results were experienced by the Germans in 1914/15. http://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&...a=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPP1,M1
 
The 2 Boer colonies at the beginning of the 2nd Boer war were fairly well off having recently discovered both gold and diamonds on thier lands. I believe the first order to Mauser was for 24.000 rifles and 1 million rounds of ammo an unheard of "private" order for the time and paid up front.
Boers were mostly Dutch and German but had a good mix of every nationality that disliked the British Empire. They had both exmilitary and techno freaks of the time, they did thier homework and bought the best weapons available NOT made by thier enemy. The British had good rifles and old school leadership they almost got thier nuts kicked.
This war ended like all wars somewhat unplesantly but was really the beginning of the end for the British they won the war but slowly lost the empire.
Dave M.
 
gregs5190 said:
The Canadian army carried colt 44 caliber 1878 , the very same as they used in the North west rebellion, they also carried 455 new service colts as well as 455 webley's
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if were talking about the same thing here , I believe the colt 1878's were in 45 caliber for the North West Rebellion or are you saying something different.....

as I own one. GrantR................................. i'm surprised you didn't comment on that yourself.

Sean
 
Bowie said:
I have a Mark 1 Webley which has stamps which I am told indicate service in the Boer war. Additionally it has Cape Town Police markings.
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I was once told my great-great Uncle served in the Boer War. I am not sure if he brought his own rifle with him to Canada when they came here but in my posession is his 1892 MLM. Too bad it never came up in conversation sooner, by the time I was asked to store it my Great Uncle had advanced Alzhiemers and could barely talk anymore. I never knew he had it.:(

Was an awkward moment pulling that one out of the safe to show Boer Seun, seeing as his family experienced the buisness end of them.
Good thing there were some Mausers here to smooth things over after.

Great thread guys.:)
 
reddog6 said:
This war ended like all wars somewhat unplesantly but was really the beginning of the end for the British they won the war but slowly lost the empire.
Dave M.
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Can't agree there. The decline began with WWI, in which Britain went from being the world's greatest creditor nation to a debtor. The war had the opposite effect on the US, but then they spent most of it selling munitions to the combatants!

WWII finished the job financially for the British as they paid their war debts in both wars.

The Germans hyper-inflated their currency to get out of paying theirs after WWI and then got the Marshall Plan after WWII.

"Victor's justice" I think they call it.:rolleyes:
 
I know its a strange coincidence ...but it seems when the British empire and her commonwealths came off the "sterling" standard in 1920 the empire began to dramatically decline.


In 1920 the coinage of the British empire and her commonwealths went from 92.5% silver to a lesser percentage British coinage started the decline to fiat currency ...The Americans would follow suit in 1964...



Oh....and heres some pictures of Boers with longarms

boers.jpg

boerss-1.jpg
 
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