bolt jamming back

supa

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Hey all

I just bought a used norc and I took it out today. I seemed to have a problem with the bolt blowing back and getting jammed in the back of the receiver. I would have to take the trigger group out and pop it forward with a screw driver. I thought it was maybe hot rounds but it happened around 7 times through out 140 rounds of SA surplus.

oh and the front and rear sights lick lol.. inc garand ones

other then that Im in love :adult:
 
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Also check to ensure that the op rod is riding properly on the bolt. I've seen the bolts get out of alignment with the op rod and get stuck, but usually in the forward position.
 
nope, its stuck behind the bolt catch ( I mean it can move freely and is not engaged )

all it takes to release it it a very minimal pressure from a flat head from the underside of the rifle




I don't think this matters but this was with a fresh tartan guide and a wolf spring
 
Maybe I'm stupid (this time of the school year) or something, but are you experiencing this bolt locking back while you are firing with a magazine inserted? :nest:

Get back to us so that we can sort this situation out. I think I've seen this situation before....:rolleyes:

Barney
 
Maybe I'm stupid (this time of the school year) or something, but are you experiencing this bolt locking back while you are firing with a magazine inserted? :nest:

Get back to us so that we can sort this situation out. I think I've seen this situation before....:rolleyes:

Barney

If Im wrong here I apologize,

but are are asking if Im stupid enough to not notice that the bolt is locking back after a magazine has been emptied?

thats how I read those smiles
 
Take the operating spring out of the op rod and move it back and forward assembled to see if it's the op rod or the bolt that's binding.
 
My .02 cents are - the bolt needs grease to run smoothly; and, is the operating rod guide square under the barrel? The former observation is a matter of friction resistance, so the parts can run with less effort. The latter question is about the operating rod getting out of alignment and pushing the bolt out of its designed path.

On the bright side, look at the situation this way. The faults are normal start-up behaviour for a new mechanical device. You are just breaking it in. If you wanted a perfectly functioning rifle, you'd have bought one that already had a few hundred rounds through it.
 
took it down and found this.. I still have the feeling I got a few rounds with a little extra pop to them :D

I have linked the pics due to size

this is the nice new marking to the rear of the bolt
bolt.jpg


another shot
bolt2.jpg


top and bottom of the bolt

bolttop.jpg

bolt%20bottom.jpg
Bloody Bur's!
It looks like Norinco QC was hard at work (sleeping) again.
Please check the channel that the op-rod side's along the receiver & also under neath the receiver.
Might need some TLC by a gun smith that is familiar with these rifles.
 
not a expert but i think your rifle needs a expert
i see marks (wear marks) that are not on some of the early ones that have seen lots of use

needs a quick check up
 
My best guess is a combination of issues.

1) I'll bet your barrel is out of index.
2) I'll bet your op rod guide is even more out of index.
3) The two above conditions are causing your oprod to "twist" your bolt as it cycles, causing the jam at the rear top right.

The bright side is there are fixes if I am right. The best fix is to have the barrel re-indexed at a gunsmith or M14 clinic. The temporary fix to get you shooting right now though, is pretty easy.

Strip the rifle so you only have the barelled receiver, op rod, bolt, gas system and opr rod guide installed. Make sure the stocks are removed including the handguard and also remove the operating rod spring and spring guide.

You will need a leather mallet or shot filled plastic dead-blow hammer. As you close the action in the above state, observe if the tip of the op rod is contacting the gas system piston dead centre. Chances are it is not. If not, use your dead blow hammer to displace the op rod guide axially left or right a couple degrees. You might have to whack it fairly hard. The object is to get the op rod guide indexed to the gas system.

The op rod guide is retained by a roll pin through a fairly loose tolerance groove in the barrel and there is about 10 degrees of potential play left and right without hurting the roll pin on a CHINESE M14. On a GI one, there is a little less play.

Now that it's indexed, with the rifle still in the above condition and UNGREASED, tilt the rifle forward and backward 30 degrees. The weight of the op rod and bolt should cause the action to open and close under their own weight at this angle and travel the full distance without binding. The one exception is the action might bind SLIGHTLY on the way open when the op rod is at the extreme rear position due to the bottom of the barrel causing *slight* friction against the top of the op rod scallop cut. It should NOT bind. If friction causes it to slow, it should still move freely with just pinky finger pressure.

Now, if after the above the the bolt is still binding at the rear, then the barrel is way out of index to the receiver. and you will want to re-index it. You can, however, move the op rod guide back out of index with the gas system until the bolt isn't binding, but this is only a temporary fix as you will beat up the op rod tip too quickly if you don't correct he root problem. You want the op rod tip to contact the full surface area of the piston to evenly distribute the force from cycling the action while firing.

Hope that helps.
 
My best guess is a combination of issues.

1) I'll bet your barrel is out of index.
2) I'll bet your op rod guide is even more out of index.
3) The two above conditions are causing your oprod to "twist" your bolt as it cycles, causing the jam at the rear top right.

The bright side is there are fixes if I am right. The best fix is to have the barrel re-indexed at a gunsmith or M14 clinic. The temporary fix to get you shooting right now though, is pretty easy.

Strip the rifle so you only have the barelled receiver, op rod, bolt, gas system and opr rod guide installed. Make sure the stocks are removed including the handguard and also remove the operating rod spring and spring guide.

You will need a leather mallet or shot filled plastic dead-blow hammer. As you close the action in the above state, observe if the tip of the op rod is contacting the gas system piston dead centre. Chances are it is not. If not, use your dead blow hammer to displace the op rod guide axially left or right a couple degrees. You might have to whack it fairly hard. The object is to get the op rod guide indexed to the gas system.

The op rod guide is retained by a roll pin through a fairly loose tolerance groove in the barrel and there is about 10 degrees of potential play left and right without hurting the roll pin on a CHINESE M14. On a GI one, there is a little less play.

Now that it's indexed, with the rifle still in the above condition and UNGREASED, tilt the rifle forward and backward 30 degrees. The weight of the op rod and bolt should cause the action to open and close under their own weight at this angle and travel the full distance without binding. The one exception is the action might bind SLIGHTLY on the way open when the op rod is at the extreme rear position due to the bottom of the barrel causing *slight* friction against the top of the op rod scallop cut. It should NOT bind. If friction causes it to slow, it should still move freely with just pinky finger pressure.

Now, if after the above the the bolt is still binding at the rear, then the barrel is way out of index to the receiver. and you will want to re-index it. You can, however, move the op rod guide back out of index with the gas system until the bolt isn't binding, but this is only a temporary fix as you will beat up the op rod tip too quickly if you don't correct he root problem. You want the op rod tip to contact the full surface area of the piston to evenly distribute the force from cycling the action while firing.

Hope that helps.


Claven2,

Thank you very much for your post as it turns out that the gas cylinder itself is off noticeably to the eye :redface: Can I whack this with a mallet?

gonna bet those fresh patches to the left are what threw the bolt off

m14s%20034.jpg

m14s%20035.jpg


as for the barrel being out if index I don't think this is a problem. I tried the 30 degree rocking method you suggested and I counted 2 slight binds ( when the bolt initially rotates left ) out of the 60 plus times I tried it

this may not be the best indicator but the feed ramps look to be lined up nicely
m14s%20040.jpg



either way, I am going to try moving the cylinder over a bit and go from there. There is a very good chance that I will shorten this rifle, when it goes in for that I will have it indexed and headspaced.

thanks again for the help
 
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