bolt jamming back

I'm not trying to be facetious ... just ensuring that we covered the most basic reason for the bolt locking back (on an empty magazine).

Now... looking at the pics, everything looks fine to me. Nothing alarming. Darn, I wish you were closer to me so I could sort it out. Any M14 CGNutz close by to give a hand? :D

Cheers,
Barney
 
Hungry said:
I'm not trying to be facetious ... just ensuring that we covered the most basic reason for the bolt locking back (on an empty magazine).

Now... looking at the pics, everything looks fine to me. Nothing alarming. Darn, I wish you were closer to me so I could sort it out. Any M14 CGNutz close by to give a hand? :D

Cheers,
Barney
Click to expand...

no harm, no foul man

If you would like to help me out ( and if you still do it ) could I mail you a couple spent casings?

thanks,
 
The feed ramps are not the issue - NEVER index a chinese barrel based on the feed ramps. I've seen them cut out of index as much as 15 degrees from one barrel to the next, and honestly, they can be way off without affecting function.

If your gas system is crooked to the naked eye than your barrel is out of adjustment. Period. You gas system splines are cut in the same pass with a horizontal mill in an indexing head as the flash deflector splines, which means your front sight will be crooked as well.

I know you say you only have 2 slight areas where the op rod binds, but this is two areas too many. It should not bid there, only slightly at the back of travel if the oprod doesn't completely clear the barrel knox form. And even then, it should only be minimal friction.

Take a look at my post and try "adjusting" the op rod guide to one side or the other slightly. Then repeat the tilt test. When there is NO binding, try taking it back out for a test fire. that may solve your issue.

Do you still have your Chu wood stock? If so, try installing it in that stock and do your hammer safety test. If it passes, you could try test firing in that stock and see if you still have binding. If not, then you could have altered your trigger geometry too much when you modded your stock.

Finally, have you done the popsicle stick repair to your GI stock to retain you op rod spring guide pin? It's a long shot, but your pin could work loose and cause you op rod spring guide to drop out of alignment and bind your oprod.
 
Claven2 said:
The feed ramps are not the issue - NEVER index a chinese barrel based on the feed ramps. I've seen them cut out of index as much as 15 degrees from one barrel to the next, and honestly, they can be way off without affecting function.

If your gas system is crooked to the naked eye than your barrel is out of adjustment. Period. You gas system splines are cut in the same pass with a horizontal mill in an indexing head as the flash deflector splines, which means your front sight will be crooked as well.
Click to expand...


I have had a buddy and my GF verify that is is off to make sure its not me and yes, its off in the 3 - 5 degree region. ( I know you say the feed ramps say nothing but if you look at that picture you can kinda see what a slight shift would do to line that up as well ). Oddly enough my flashhider is straight.. go figure

There should be a spline right down the top center ?



Claven2 said:
I know you say you only have 2 slight areas where the op rod binds, but this is two areas too many. It should not bid there, only slightly at the back of travel if the oprod doesn't completely clear the barrel knox form. And even then, it should only be minimal friction.
Click to expand...

I think we are talking about the same area


Claven2 said:
Take a look at my post and try "adjusting" the op rod guide to one side or the other slightly. Then repeat the tilt test. When there is NO binding, try taking it back out for a test fire. that may solve your issue.
Click to expand...

I will do this when I adjust the barrel


Claven2 said:
Do you still have your Chu wood stock? If so, try installing it in that stock and do your hammer safety test. If it passes, you could try test firing in that stock and see if you still have binding. If not, then you could have altered your trigger geometry too much when you modded your stock.

Finally, have you done the popsicle stick repair to your GI stock to retain you op rod spring guide pin? It's a long shot, but your pin could work loose and cause you op rod spring guide to drop out of alignment and bind your oprod.
Click to expand...

No, I don't have the original stock. This mod hasn't been done though.

I plan to bed this rifle soon as I did my enfield last week with amazing results, that should take care of the retaining pin at the same time
 
supa said:
I have had a buddy and my GF verify that is is off to make sure its not me and yes, its off in the 3 - 5 degree region. ( I know you say the feed ramps say nothing but if you look at that picture you can kinda see what a slight shift would do to line that up as well ). Oddly enough my flashhider is straight.. go figure
Click to expand...

Your flash hider may not be straight. It's likely it's not. Many are machined crooked, still others are installed crooked. You can check it quickly though. Remove the front sight and clamp a straight bar flat on the top of it and put another on the rear receiver ledge right behind the rear sight. Look down the length of the rifle and check if they are parallel. Probably they are not.

As for the splines, no there are THREE splines on the barrel for both the gas system and the flash hider, spread 33.3 degrees apart from each other around the barrel's circumference.
 
One more thing - if you know anyone else with an M14, borrow another stock and check if it still binds in the other one. It could be your stock where you inletted it further for the trigger guard.
 
man this dial up sucks....... fricken stone age internet..... can't see the pics well enough.

I find no reason whatsoever to look at barrel index for cause in a bolt jamming in the receiver issue. oprod binding..... maybe but this is rectified by adjusting the oprod guide.
for general shooting and function.... the barrel can be a few degrees from index either direction, and never give a problem or malfunction.

if this problem still exists in your rifle I would check the following, but first take a felt pen and colour all areas on your bolt that are shiny, where the parkerizing has been worn.
then cycle the action by hand fully assembled
tear down and inspect bolt. shiny spots on the bolt tail, both top, bottom and sides, will indicate receiver, bolt stop and hammer contact
it is in these places you should look first for burs in the receiver. if your bolt has developed burrs, this an indication that the bolt is soft and should be replaced. we are not talking wear marks, we are talking actual burrs or dented misformed metal, no matter how slight.
next we look to the bolt stop and it's pin. a bent or otherwise out of spec bolt stop pin can be the culprit in instances like this, allowing the bolt stop to hang up on the bolt during normal cycling. check bolt stop for burrs at it's bolt contact points. If burrs are found, replace bolt stop and pin. if pin is bent or cracked or undersize, replace the pin.

also check the right hand side of receiver, the opening where the bolt travels under the stripper clip guide/rear sight area. this opening may have burrs on its bolt contact edges and can and will cause the bolt to stick on a newer rifle and it will get stuck at the very rear of travel.

lastly and this is by no means a complete list of causes...... but if the receiver bridge has burrs along it's bolt contact points....... this is bad news and in my opinion not very correctable in a chinese (or any "brand" of m14 type receiver) unless you "really" know what you are doing.

too many folks getting hung up on barrel indexing , when in fact most of the newer chinese product has had barrels indexed within a degree of top dead center.
I have been finding FAR more gas assemblies with mounting splines cut several degrees from top dead center than i have been finding out of index barrels. in the past 3 months i have had to reindex 2 rifles out of over 60 that came across my bench.
not saying your barrel is or isn't out of index but with a bolt jamming issue , looking at barrel index as a culprit would be very low on the inspection list.
 
By the way, the best way I know of to check barrel index is to use a USGI flash hider and clamp your parrallel to the top of the GI dovetail and a second parellel to the rear sight ledge.

The GI splines are always straight and will give you a good indication. Thomas may have more recent experience, but I've never seen a bbl in index on a chinese M14 out pf the box, this includes rifles of 2005, 2007 and 2009 vintage but no 2010 guns yet for me.

Have you tried tweaking the op rod guide as suggested? Often what is perceived as a binding bolt is actually a binding oprod ;)
 
Claven2 said:
By the way, the best way I know of to check barrel index is to use a USGI flash hider and clamp your parrallel to the top of the GI dovetail and a second parellel to the rear sight ledge.

The GI splines are always straight and will give you a good indication. Thomas may have more recent experience, but I've never seen a bbl in index on a chinese M14 out pf the box, this includes rifles of 2005, 2007 and 2009 vintage but no 2010 guns yet for me.

Have you tried tweaking the op rod guide as suggested? Often what is perceived as a binding bolt is actually a binding oprod ;)
Click to expand...


yeah the op rod guide could be moved a few degrees if you gave it a good twist. I hammered the pin in a little bit further and its better now.

I used the method I saw in the clinic video to index the barrel. I am in the middle of drilling the splines in my chinese one and will remount it straight until I get a usgi one.

you are probably right about the op rod just getting knocked off track.
 
I have found the problem.. I for some reason started rocking it back and forth and I managed to jam it under gravity.


m14s%20059.jpg

m14s%20060.jpg

m14s%20063.jpg

m14s%20064.jpg


then there is this little gem

m14s%20010.jpg

m14s%20014.jpg
 
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supa, i'd be very interested in having a look and documenting that issue when i'm down on the coast at months end. It's easy for me to see the bolt tail spur/receiver contact but the pics of the receiver safety bridge are not clear enough for me to see with my dial up connection...... is there damage there?
p.m. me your info and i'll call you before i come down ;)
 
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