bolt won't close on some ammo

doctor_meltdown

doctor_meltdown

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I have very nice H Dumoulin mannlicher in 358 win that I picked up a couple years back from a CGN member. It had changed hands a couple times before that.

It loads, shoots and ejects OEM hornady 200gr SP ammo just fine. However, the bolt won't close on any other ammo: HSM 225 gr gameking, buffalo bore 225 gr gameking and buffalo bore 225gr tsx. I'm pretty sure Rob owned it at some point, though I didn't want to buy it from him. One of the previous owners (probably Rob ?) had mentionned in a PM that he had issues getting the rifle to feed handloads.

I thought that 358 winchester ammo used to be available in 250gr way back in the day, so I'm not sure why it won't feed anything other than the 200gr OEM ammo. I have not had a chance to try to handload 200gr ammo to see if it will feed, since I don't want to reload 200gr projectiles for the 358.

I love the rifle and calibre, but if I'm using a 200gr SP, then I'm likely hunting deer on the Island in the rain, and I'm reaching for my stainless BLR. Not being able to use other bullets reduces its versatility, especially for what is essentially a handloader's calibre now: Even OEM Hornady ammo has been virtually impossible to find in the last 2 years.

Is this something that could be easily addressed by a competent gunsmith ? Should I bother getting it worked over or should I just move it along to someone who will appreciate the rifle as is ?

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That your bolt will not close on some ammo, but will close on other ammo, suggest that your "headspace" (the chamber to bolt face) is probably okay. But since the bolt stops on some ammo - is likely that the bullet is running into the lands. So, the various weights that you tried - proves about nothing - is about the diameter of a particular bullet at the point that it makes contact with the lands that matters - not the weight of that bullet.

Easiest way is to have a gunsmith use real SAAMI GO and FIELD steel gauge to verify that headspace is okay and within SAAMI tolerances. All North American made commercial ammo should fit and chamber into a SAAMI compliant chamber - if at some point someone had "better idea" and installed a custom barrel with a non-standard chamber - is where you are at. "Non-standard" includes the location of the lands - which a head space gauge does not check - or the thing could even have been made up BEFORE the 358 Win was standardized by SAAMI.

Once you know that "headspace" is within tolerances, colour up a round that WILL NOT CHAMBER - so with jiffy marker and colour up the entire bullet - try to chamber that one - where ever it is hitting something, is likely the jiffy marker will be rubbed off - then you will know WHERE the issue is. If it is the location of the lands, maybe you want to have the lands cut to be forward a bit - or maybe you want to seat heavier bullets deeper to accommodate those lands - if that is the issue.

If you are into reloading - about a classic case to ignore what the reloading manual calls for as COAL - you will have to insert the bullet of interest and measure for yourself. Usually most manuals (like Woodleigh) will want circa .020" to .040" clearance from lands to their bullet when chambered. I understand some mono-metal bullets like Barnes might want much more than that to be accurate - like .080" or similar. But it is the shape and the specific measurements of the bullets that are likely your issue - not the weight.

FYI - the 358 Win cartridge was "invented" circa 1955. I do not know when the Dumoulon Mauser actions were made - for sure there have been 98 Mausers made since 1898. So the rifle that you have, might be someone's "put together" custom thing, versus an original factory product - and I doubt that European makers follow SAAMI - I think their laws make them follow C.I.P. standards.
 
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Use a measuring caliper and a body comparator for headspace and cbto and you will easyly find what is wrong. Measure the cartridge that chamber and compare it with one that doesn’t and write down measurements. Cortina trick is to use scotch tape who measure ~.002.
 
I had a .250 Savage with a custom barrel like that... it would work fine with Winchester Silvertips, but the bolt wouldn't close on Remington ammo.

My suspicion is you have a rifle with a minimum dimension chamber. IF you can find a gunsmith with headspace gauges and a reamer it shouldn't take long or be difficult to fix. If the bolt will not close on a GO gauge, ( it should ) then it's just a matter of advancing the chamber a few thou, cut and try method.
 
You may look into small base dies if you are a re loader and if there are such a thing for the 358.
Sure is a pretty rifle and if you wanna save shipping sending it to me , I';; ride over and take it off your hands.
Rob...oh wait I am not the Rob you are thinking about ;)
ps, I'm thinking that Potash onto something.
 
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To see if its bullet length is the issue then you can mark the bullet with sharpie and see if it has marks from the lands when you chamber it.
 
My ruger american has chambered everything fine except for 5-10% of these $1/rd mil sur rounds I have for plinking. Every other mag or so I get one that the bolt will slide forward but not #### down on. I just put em in another bag to sell or shoot out of something else. These milsur also shoot ~4" to the right at 100y so not used for much except rough sighting in of scopes or showing a new person how a 308 feels.
 
Short throat and bullet ogive of the 225gr as that seemed to be the issue but not for the 200gr. Split the neck of an empty case and see how far it seats the 225gr bullet when you close the bolt compared to one
that wouldn't chamber.
 
Measure the ammo that works and the ammo that doesn’t. With some kind of comparator gauge (hornady and Wilson make them. Others do too). Colour the bullet for the ammo that doesn’t with a sharpie and chamber a round as far as you can. Extract it and look for scrapes where the bullet contacts the lands.

As long as there isn’t a big carbon ring or a really dirty chamber, those are the only two things I can think of that will cause your issue.

You may have to handload to make those heavier bullets work. Be careful about pressure when seating heavy bullets deep and contacting the lands. No big deal, just work your way up from a reduced load. You’ll find the spot that works for you easily enough.
 
I'll be taking it to a smith to get it checked out. Thanks to those who shared their insight.

I like the rifle and don't want to be limited to using 200 gr interlocks. Yes, they're fine for deer and bear but they aren't my 1st choice for moose or elk.
 
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