Bonded vs all copper
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When ranges get on the long side, the monometals can fail to expand, which can mean a long recovery, if at all.
I am personally more satisfied with a Lead core bonded bullet, or the Venerable Nosler Partition.
IMHO, the ultimate bullet for heavier game [Moose, Elk, Big Bears] is the Swift A-Frame. They always expand, and
they always stay together. I hunt Elk on farmland, where a shot can exceed 400 meters. On those hunts, the TTSX
stays at home and the A-Frame, Partition or Accubond come along. Dave.
I am personally more satisfied with a Lead core bonded bullet, or the Venerable Nosler Partition.
IMHO, the ultimate bullet for heavier game [Moose, Elk, Big Bears] is the Swift A-Frame. They always expand, and
they always stay together. I hunt Elk on farmland, where a shot can exceed 400 meters. On those hunts, the TTSX
stays at home and the A-Frame, Partition or Accubond come along. Dave.
youre going to hear alot of Partition Talk.
Accubond original are great, Swift A Frame on Par - Woodleighs but lack shape for longer shots more often than lesser-
interbonds, ETC
im a fan of Premium bonded... but down here, prices dont allow me to use em LOL
so i go heavy for calibre SP
Accubond original are great, Swift A Frame on Par - Woodleighs but lack shape for longer shots more often than lesser-
interbonds, ETC
im a fan of Premium bonded... but down here, prices dont allow me to use em LOL
so i go heavy for calibre SP
My biggest issue is trying to find a bonded bullet in .311, and I have only found two bullets in monometal construction, Barnes and Hammers.
The Barnes work excellent in my Ruger, excellent enough tgat I cannot justify the cost of working up loads with the Hammers!
Cat
The Barnes work excellent in my Ruger, excellent enough tgat I cannot justify the cost of working up loads with the Hammers!
Cat
Many hunters say exactly what you just wrote. Experienced hunters, that is. And they have been saying it for many - many - years now.
I prefer bonded over monometal. I want known consistent and proven expansion. I've had to many failures with Barnes tsx in the rifles I've used them in
For heavy for caliber or modest velocity cartridges I still like good old cup and core bullets as well
For heavy for caliber or modest velocity cartridges I still like good old cup and core bullets as well
I agree entirely, Track. I have used the Scirocco on 3 animals so far...excellent results. Recovered one 180 grain from a Bull moose,
classic expansion, good weight retention.
Dave.- Location
- Western Manitoba
I guess some fairly limited experience - I took a couple White tail with Sierra SPBT - circa early 1980's - shot targets very well - then had one explode on a spine shot - switched to Speer HotCor - which I have used since then - mid 1980's - 165 grain in 308 Win. Never did replicate that shot, so maybe Sierra are okay - maybe HotCor would have done the same? Around 1999, I got a 7x57 - that one only saw 150 grain Partitions. All were mule deer or white tail deer. I have never hunted with Hornady or Barnes bullets. 338 Win Mag (225 grain) and 9.3x62 (250 grain) both do very nice targets with Accubond, but have not got anything with either, yet.
In my opinion there's a lot of variables in play i.e. impact velocity as well as bullet design. I switched from Nosler Partitions when they released their Ballistic Tip with much fanfare; they worked, but they were a step backwards. Around here back then, you could be hunting anything from moose, bear, elk, both species of deer, goats, bighorns, etc within an hour's drive of the house; whether the 30/06 or the .358 Norma Magnum, I just wanted a bullet that would serve well on whatever I was hunting that day. Barnes released the original x-bullet about that time in the late 1980's. I tried them out and they performed extremely well; that led to my brothers also using them and a couple of friends (possibly as much due to the marketing noise going on at the time as much as what I thought about their performance). Everybody was and still is happy with them.
My preference for staying with the Barnes over the Partitions was that I recovered Partitions and could see that they'd stuck together - but they'd shed a lot of the bullet along the way. "Stayed together" doesn't mean "shed a lot of weight but at least most of the core and jacket stayed together" in my world. I rarely recovered a Barnes over the years and the internal and exit wounds told me they hadn't just gone through the game as though a FMJ solid. Both worked - but I liked the Barnes better.
I have never had the slightest problem with their terminal performance on game i.e. failure to expand. But I am not one of the hunter/snipers shooting game out past 400 yards with moderate calibers like 30/06. With the 358 Norma Magnum, I have shot a couple of elk/moose past 400 yards with the 200 grain Barnes. Starting out at around 3100 fps, there is more than enough remaining velocity for expansion out at 400 yards and beyond.
I do have a remaining supply of the old Bitterroot Bonded Core heavy bullets in both 30 and 35 caliber that will last me to the end of my life - they go up the spout when I'm up in the mountains around here in the alders chasing after elk and moose. They were an excellent heavy bullet if you specifically had big critters like grumbly bears in mind.
I don't doubt those who say they've found Barnes expansion to be unreliable. I do wonder what caliber and bullet weights they're using when having those problems and what distances they had problems at. I don't think they're doing anything wrong, but I wonder if the impact velocity of the bullets is below their expansion parameters. I use 150 gr. TTSX in the .308 and 30/06; the 168 gr. TTSX in the 30 Newton; and the 200 grain in the 358 Norma Magnum.
If I'd been having problems with Barnes bullets over the last 30+ years, I would certainly have been looking for something better long before now - it's just a bullet choice, not a religious cult.
There may well be many hunting bullets of other designs that are superior, but I haven't seen any reason or need to explore those options and begin load development all over again.
My preference for staying with the Barnes over the Partitions was that I recovered Partitions and could see that they'd stuck together - but they'd shed a lot of the bullet along the way. "Stayed together" doesn't mean "shed a lot of weight but at least most of the core and jacket stayed together" in my world. I rarely recovered a Barnes over the years and the internal and exit wounds told me they hadn't just gone through the game as though a FMJ solid. Both worked - but I liked the Barnes better.
I have never had the slightest problem with their terminal performance on game i.e. failure to expand. But I am not one of the hunter/snipers shooting game out past 400 yards with moderate calibers like 30/06. With the 358 Norma Magnum, I have shot a couple of elk/moose past 400 yards with the 200 grain Barnes. Starting out at around 3100 fps, there is more than enough remaining velocity for expansion out at 400 yards and beyond.
I do have a remaining supply of the old Bitterroot Bonded Core heavy bullets in both 30 and 35 caliber that will last me to the end of my life - they go up the spout when I'm up in the mountains around here in the alders chasing after elk and moose. They were an excellent heavy bullet if you specifically had big critters like grumbly bears in mind.
I don't doubt those who say they've found Barnes expansion to be unreliable. I do wonder what caliber and bullet weights they're using when having those problems and what distances they had problems at. I don't think they're doing anything wrong, but I wonder if the impact velocity of the bullets is below their expansion parameters. I use 150 gr. TTSX in the .308 and 30/06; the 168 gr. TTSX in the 30 Newton; and the 200 grain in the 358 Norma Magnum.
If I'd been having problems with Barnes bullets over the last 30+ years, I would certainly have been looking for something better long before now - it's just a bullet choice, not a religious cult.
There may well be many hunting bullets of other designs that are superior, but I haven't seen any reason or need to explore those options and begin load development all over again.
Hand Skills
CGN Regular
- Location
- In the 'heartland', southern SK
Either - between the two of them, shot placement is the most important thing.
I like the new style monos that shed their nose like a Partition (Hammer, CEB).
I like the new style monos that shed their nose like a Partition (Hammer, CEB).
My Ruger is now over 30 critters kill count with about 90% of them with the 150 Barnes, the longest well over 300 yards with a complete pass through the heart.
Perfect expansion by looking at the heart and exit wound
This was the valley I shot across for that 300 yard+ shot
Cat
Perfect expansion by looking at the heart and exit wound
This was the valley I shot across for that 300 yard+ shot
Cat
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My 2506 could not keep a tsx together. In water jugs or a road kill doe. The pedals blew off within the first couple inches and the solid shank of a .257 doesn't provide much of a wound channel. Shots were at 100 yards 50 yards and 25 yards.
My buddies 7mm rem mag was similar results and another friend used factory 300wm tsx load to shoot 2 black bears. The first was standing against a tree shot thru the chest. The entrance hole in the tree showed no expansion or at least no pedals. Bear ran off and was never found. Shot was 125 yards. Only a blood spray on the tree. His second bear did die eventually. 80 yard shot down into a meadow on a sitting bear. The 180gr tsx entered at what I'd call the collar bone pocket on a human. That space between the base of the neck and the shoulder. The bullet did not touch bone and lost its pedals and only went in a few inches into the bear. It was about 300lb class bear. Luckily it must have hit an artery as there was very lil internal damage and no blood trail. We happened to stumble upon it over the next ridge. Those have been enough failures for me to choose another bullet. I did not Chrono my buddies 300wm factory loads but I know my 2506 hand loads worked thru the range in the lee manual and I never recovered and intact bullet. For my 2506 I switched to 117gr interlock and never had an issue and never recovered a bullet but exits were always twoonie size in wolf and deer
I'm sure others have had better luck than I using them.
In my 300 Ultra I recovered maybe a half dozen TSX’s from elk and moose, and on the ones found none of the petals were intact. Not that it mattered, as I’m always shooting for bones.
About half of the recovered TTSX’s from my 280AI had shed all their petals. One bull had one picture perfect flower, and one that was just a shank and they were about 6” apart in the offside shoulder under the hide.
About half of the recovered TTSX’s from my 280AI had shed all their petals. One bull had one picture perfect flower, and one that was just a shank and they were about 6” apart in the offside shoulder under the hide.
