Boomlemons - a beginner's guide to firearm avoidance

AB3006

AB3006

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Hi all. I just read @Ruffled Grouse's excellent thread https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/431263-bringing-together-all-the-what-should-my-first-hunting-rifle-be-thread-advice as well as the responses to my own thread on the choice of a 30-06 for a beginner. Again, thank you all kind folks for your answers and guidance.

Perhaps it would be good to make an analogous dark side list to that thread. I would love to see input from the experienced owners and shooters why a particular rifle (make, model, year, chambering, barrel length, stock type/make, etc.) disappointed you. Note that I don't mean stories of perfectly good or otherwise excellent weapons that were wrong for a particular shooter (26" .338 WinMag for a 100Lb 12-year old)**. Also, I don't think that internet tropes, stories from the guy at the pub or keyboard commando imaginings would be very helpful. However, personal experience and rationale would be.

Obviously, I can't contribute very much as that would put me very firmly in the keyboard commando camp, but I would love to see some input from CGN veterans.

** EDIT: Although if you feel this is valid and hasn't been covered enough previously, by all means put it in.
 
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The first questions that must be answered are: "What do I want it for? What do I want it to do well?"
 
Buckmastr said:
Imagine a world without plastic.
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Sounds pretty hippy tbh lol.

It just works too well to give up!


Love the title of this thread, OP! The only rifle I've ever used (not owned, thank f***) that I would give an emphatic "avoid like the plague" was the old Remington 710 annd 770 series. Mechanically crap and full of fails. The 783 now rocks lol.

Otherwise...no real "do not buy!" positions here. Complaints about some rifles you have to tinker with to make work? Sure, but not "wouldn't touch it with a stolen pecker" level of disdain.
 
Ruger American. There is absolutely nothing good about it, worst piece of crap I ever (very briefly) owned. Second place would be a Savage Axis.
 
I'm actually on board with bolt shrouds!

But those are an actual fail, which is the point of the thread, and not "I don't like it even though they can work fabulously" which decidedly is not lol


Meanwhile, several Ruger Americans in and not regretting a single one. They perform. Accurate, reliable, affordable hammers. If someone is going to complain about the action not being Tikka smooth or some zipper sound, that'll be an issue for them lol. Pony up an extra $450 or so.

Or just shoot the thing. The couple that weren't quite smooth did smooth out just fine.
 
Joel said:
I'm actually on board with bolt shrouds!

But those are an actual fail, which is the point of the thread, and not "I don't like it even though they can work fabulously" which decidedly is not lol


Meanwhile, several Ruger Americans in and not regretting a single one. They perform. Accurate, reliable, affordable hammers. If someone is going to complain about the action not being Tikka smooth or some zipper sound, that'll be an issue for them lol. Pony up an extra $450 or so.

Or just shoot the thing. The couple that weren't quite smooth did smooth out just fine.
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I stand by my statement. Over the years I`ve owned an awful lot of rifles (probably close to 100 or so) and the Ruger American was by far the worst rifle I had ever shot.
 
In general, Tikka T3's disappoint me. Other than the smooth bolt that feels good in the gun store but does nothing to help you in the field, the stocks are meh, the mags are expensive and they don't shoot any better than a rifle that costs 1/2 as much. Are they a good rifle? Sure. Can you spend less and get the same performance and have $ left over for a better optic, sling and ammo to practice with. Absolutely.
 
Bad Bob said:
I stand by my statement. Over the years I`ve owned an awful lot of rifles (probably close to 100 or so) and the Ruger American was by far the worst rifle I had ever shot.
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Cool.

I stand by it being subjective and not actual fail :)

Its equally possible to have had a lot of rifles here and think the Americans are great.
 
Bad Bob said:
I stand by my statement. Over the years I`ve owned an awful lot of rifles (probably close to 100 or so) and the Ruger American was by far the worst rifle I had ever shot.
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I, like Joel own a bunch of Ruger Americans. I have owned several more that i have since sold for various reasons.

What i have gleaned from this experience, is that like many other plastic stocked rifles (Savage Axis, Remington 783, Tikka etc.) is that once you get to a certain cartridge size/recoil level, their performance drops dramatically. In my experience, 308 is about the very top end of that scale. Feeding, accuracy and other issues crop up. The RAR is fantastic up to about 6 creed and OK at 308. They really shine with the intermediate cartridges 556/x39/Grendel etc.
 
jparent said:
I, like Joel own a bunch of Ruger Americans. I have owned several more that i have since sold for various reasons.

What i have gleaned from this experience, is that like many other plastic stocked rifles (Savage Axis, Remington 783, Tikka etc.) is that once you get to a certain cartridge size/recoil level, their performance drops dramatically. In my experience, 308 is about the very top end of that scale. Feeding, accuracy and other issues crop up. The RAR is fantastic up to about 6 creed and OK at 308. They really shine with the intermediate cartridges 556/x39/Grendel etc.
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Ah, good point. Come to think of it, none of mine have been chambered in anything bigger/longer than 6.5CM

That's interesting.
 
Ha! Now we're cookin' with smokeless! I really did want to see not only that gun X is gob####e and gun Y is the pits, but also some rationale why and conditions where this is true, ideally based on personal experience.

To a beginner like myself, that's the real value.
 
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AB3006 said:
Ha! Now we're cookin' with smokeless! I really did want to see not only that gun X is gob####e and gun Y is the pits, but also some rationale why and conditions where this is true, ideally based on personal experience.

To a beginner like myself, that's the real value.
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LOL what you're gonna get is a lot of "I don't like this, even if it works". Be ready to pick through a lot of chaff for the wheat you're lookin for ;)
 
I have seen several rifles over the years of particular models that were real crap right out of the box, but all were able to be fixed with a bit of effort and very little if any cost.
The Winchester 670 comes to mind, and the mid 80's model 70 , four of them in fact.
Between action screws that were too long, and hot melt glue type recoil lug bedding , they were a mess- but a bit of file work , and some chiseling and epoxy, and all were fantastic rifles.
One floor plate on a 70 was so bound up it couldn't be opened. No idea how that even got out of the dealer's shop. filed some material off the end of the floor plate and all was good.
As far as the Americans go, shot quite a few from 308 to .223, all were great little rifles for hunting rigs.

The absolute worst rifle I ever encountered I think was in fact my favorite action, a Ruger #1. Bad trigger, bad barrel. No amount of load tuning could get that to shoot decently.
The trigger got changed, and the barrel replaced, and it turned into a very nice open class silhouette rifle. not an easy or economical fix though.
However, that was a one off rifle, every other #1 I have owned has been great.
Cat
 
I have to agree with the Ruger American. Had nothing but problems feeding from the magazines, and yes I tried several magazines. It was a 7mm-08, so there should have been not problems, but there was.

When it shot, it was okay, just getting it to feed from the mags was problematic.

And don't tell me it was the short cartridge shoulder. I had a browning hunter in 270 wsm that fed and shot wonderfully through their rotary mags, with never an issue.
 
Guns I've had that were genuine lemons, and maybe some that had minor problems:

Rem 783 (gouge in feed ramp, would not feed)

Zastava M70 (chamber cut sloppily, would not fire)

Huglu 202b (dangerous, doubled when safety was taken off)

BRNO K1 (fixable, extractor slipped the non rimmed round it was chambered in)

Rem 870 (fixable, would not eject target loads)

Mossberg Silver Reserve SxS (piece of metal connecting barrels at muzzle end went flying, no regulation x2)

Lever action Turk shotgun (skin peeling amount of force required to work lever)

Semi auto turk shotgun SA-08 clone (would not eject, rounds hanging up in action when loading from ejection port and bolt stopping on them when released)

SAKO A7 (minor and fixable, design flaw in magazine field lips that caused them to malform if you did too much top loading with it in the gun)

Probably more astute readers will notice a theme.

Lemons unfortunately are possible in all manufactured goods, from the above list I would happily purchase another:

A7 (truly an excellent rifle)

Zastava m70 (currently having a custom built on a stainless zastava receiver)

BRNO K1 ( though I now have a preference for rimmed cartridges in hinge actions that is not going away)

Rem 870s are probably fine but I'm not a huge pump guy.

Guns I just don't like:

Any savage product that is not a 99, gross, clunky, "toy" like feel poor ergonomics and aesthetics. Axis especially with its heavy bolt lift and trigger

Rem 700s- gotta hate something "ford/chevy" . Design is much copied but doesn't interest me like SAKO pf designs or anything based on the mauser 98

Ruger American- specifically the rotary mag version I hated loading mine, poor finish, weird checkering in fore end, comb is far too low (and I fit low/straight combs generally). Ugly as sin. Second gen seems to have addressed a lot of this stuff, while doubling down on the ugly as sin part.
 
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