Bore cleaning while at the range for precision

[horseman2]

Within the last year I have started running a felt plug through the bore after a shooting session to remove the burn powder.
With my 40XBR, just running the plug through, the first round afterwards is always high and left and then it settles down.
Every rifle will respond differently and when to give a thorough cleaning will remain a personal choice.
The Lilja recommendation is something that I tried and it may be valid. Fouling the bore after their cleaning process did require more rounds to stabilize than my current procedure.
Opinions and theories vary widely but I don't believe more bores are worn out by cleaning than shooting unless the process is too aggressive.
The Anschutz recommendation suggests pushing the rod all the way through the bore and removing the brush, removes the possibility of damaging the crown.

 

[Gillis2]

Many schools of thought and as Glenn emphasizes, most high level rimfire competitive shooters thesedays seem to clean on a regular basis. Me ? I am mainly a BR-50 shooter but an informal one as I do not compete but only against myself. I am doing that seriously though with a solid interest in accuracy as I have a few serious quality rifles and use mainly match ammo.
For me it is:
1- After every shooting session, 1 patch soaked in ballistol followed by 2 dry patches. I then leave the bore with a last ballistol soaked patch. Of course before I re-use a rifle I run 2 dry patches to get the ballistol residue out.
2- About every thousand round: A thorough cleaning of the bore and chamber using rimfire blend, brass brush and many, many patches.
So far that regimen works quite good for me. Of course each rifle is different and some of my rifles need the no 2 approach of a deep cleaning more often.

I have no pretentions that my way is THE way but after many years of shooting and reading lots on the subject, I have formed that method which is it is an approach that I feel good with.

Gilbert

 

[dizzy]

What's happening inside the barrel that could affect accuracy?

When the bullet glides down the bore, the heat both from the powder, and heat from the friction, melts the lead and peels a little lead off the projectile and deposits it onto the bore. Two things happen. Lead builds up on the bore,and the projectile loses its shape from the loss of lead. Both affect the shape of the projectile affecting its concentricity, which obviously affects its flight pattern. Very high end barrels go through a hand lapping process that does three things. Smooths out the bore of the barrel so there is less friction on the projectile, increases the diameter of the bore of the barrel so there is less friction on the projectile, and creates a choke at the muzzle end of the barrel which is designed to squeezed the projectile down in size and tighten the seal as it exits to keep gasses from blowing by it so as not to cause wobble on the bullet as it leaves the muzzle.

Cleaning lead out of a 22 lr barrel ALWAYS helps with accuracy, how you do it and when you do it depends entirely on the lead build up.

What is super critical to accuracy as well is the crown. Serious shooters use a bore guide and cleaning rod and are very very particular about what touches the crown. most cleaning is done with patches and chemistry and things get pushed from the chamber out the muzzle, not many will pull a brush back through the muzzle

With a bore snake its easy to create uneven tension around the crown and create microscopic grooves that allow gasses to escape past the base of the bullet the instant it exits the muzzle which can really adversely affect accuracy.

Just another opinion, take it for what its worth.

 

[lucas.c]

So in this case there are about 100 ways to skin a cat. All of these methods seem to make sense. But I guess because of the nature of trying to squeeze the precision out of a rimfire rifle, it’ll be the kind of thing where I have to do a bit of trial and error and find out exactly what seems to work best for me and my particular rifle. Thanks again for all the advice guys.

Dizzy, that’s interesting about the muzzle and the crown and how it could be affected by passing a wire brush through it. Is this still the case though if the crown/barrel are made from hardened steel and the brushes all seem to be softer copper? As is probably apparent, I’m new to precision shooting. I understand that protecting the crown of the barrel will protect the way that the barrel is meant to perform, but if you don’t ever touch the muzzle with a more abrasive brush type device and only use cleaning chemicals with patches, how would you clean the muzzle effectively when the time is right?

 

[RabidM4U5]

I don't know where this silliness about not pulling a brush back through the muzzle comes from... Top shooters ONLY pull the brush back, NEVER push!

World record setter Mike Sherrill describes how he cares for his rifles. Record was recently set with a 12 year old rifle. Damage from pulling a brush back through the muzzle? Please

I’ll try to answer Bill's request above and give some insight to how I clean my barrels and the items I use to do so. I’m sure there are more than one way to “Skin the Cat”, but this is what works for me. Of course, everyone just needs to find what works best for them & their barrels.

Below is a list of the things I use to clean my barrels.
1) Bill Meyers cleaning rod
2) 2-piece delrin bore guide (purchased years ago from Dan Killough, I don’t think he carries this one anymore). This bore guide has a full length insert to match the length of the main action body part of the guide. This gives support over a longer length of the rod to prevent deflection inside the barrel. I run a little test to determine the amount of deflection as follows; insert the complete boreguide assembly in the action, insert the rod with jag attached just to the beginning of the barrel chamber opening. Move the handle of the rod up & down while watching how much the jag deflects at the barrel chamber opening. I want mine to deflect as little as possible. Mine will stay inside the barrel chamber opening when I do this test. A lot of the guides will allow the deflection to move way outside the chamber opening, sometimes a ½”- ¾” or more of total movement up & down. This could allow the rod more of a chance to come in contact with the barrel while cleaning.
3) Kleenbore brass cleaning jag #jag-227
4) Pro-Shot 22 cal centerfire bronze brush
5) Proshot cleaning patches 1-1/8”x 1-1/8” square
6) Butches Bore Shine solvent
7) IOSSO paste

Before a tournament I’ll clean as below:
1) Push one wet patch the full length (chamber to crown), leave rod extended out the barrel, remove jag and replace with bronze brush
2) Wet the bronze brush and pull back through the bore (crown to chamber) taking care when entering at the crown.
3) Push wet patch (chamber to crown)
4) Push dry patch (chamber to crown)
5) Push another dry patch (chamber to crown)
6) Repeat steps 1-5
7) Repeat steps 1-5 again

Between targets I’ll clean as below:
1) Push a wet patch full length of barrel (chamber to crown)
2) Push a dry patch full length of barrel (chamber to crown)
3) Push another dry patch full length of barrel (chamber to crown)

If I think my accuracy is falling off, during the match, I’ll clean as below:
1) Push one wet patch the full length (chamber to crown), leave rod extended out the barrel, remove jag and replace with bronze brush
2) Wet the bronze brush and pull back through the bore (crown to chamber) taking care when entering at the crown.
3) Push wet patch (chamber to crown)
4) Push dry patch (chamber to crown)
5) Push another dry patch (chamber to crown)

I will give my barrel a super cleaning session about once or twice per year, depending on how much I shoot and if I think the accuracy is falling off. Below is that cleaning procedure.
1) Push a wet patch the full length of the barrel.
2) Rub Iosso on a patch and short stroke (chamber only) for 10-20 strokes.
3) Put a dry patch on and short stroke the chamber the same amount of strokes as step #2.
4) Push a wet patch the full length of the barrel.
5) Push 2 dry patches the full length of the barrel.
6) Repeat steps 1-5.
7) Repeat steps 1-5.
8) Once I’m happy with the steps above then I’ll repeat steps 4&5 just for good measure.

Remember the goal is to clean as little as possible while maintaining the accuracy needed to be competitive in this great benchrest game. Good Luck to all.

Mike Sherrill

 

[grauhanen]

Thanks for sharing Mike Sherrill's methodology.

I don't know where this silliness about not pulling a brush back through the muzzle comes from... Top shooters ONLY pull the brush back, NEVER push!

Not attempting to be provocative and not referring to anyone posting on these pages, I would hesitate to suggest categorically that all top shooters only pull the brush, never pushing it. There is variation in methods used by any number of champions and it's not necessarily the measure of being a top shooter nor how they got to be that way.

The chief reason why some shooters, perhaps many, pull the brush through the bore rather than pushing it, is that this is the best way to prevent the rod itself from touching the bore should it bend even slightly under pressure. To safeguard the crown, it would be advisable to fit a muzzle guide for the rod. Without such a cap the crown would be at risk for damage from the rod. A damaged crown is not good for accuracy.

A very knowledgeable and respected Canadian posting on Rimfire Central explained in 2016 what is involved:

There is also the option of a fitted muzzle guide cap for a rod. It does the same thing a bore guide does, but at the muzzle end. Anyone with a lathe can quickly make you one. I only pull rods from breach to muzzle. Its the only way to absolutely prevent contact with the rod and the bore. A few years back, Mr Stiller did an experiment on numerous top brands of steel cleaning rods using a support fixture and dial indicators and found that even without any pressure, they all bow under their own weight enough to contact the bore. (I don't believe he tested carbon fiber rods for this) If your pushing them, you will definately swipe the bore with some presssure. Not a big issue if the rod has no steps, is straight, hardened stainless steel and highly polished. Can eventually be an issue otherwise.

When I see many older rifles that have been regularly cleaned using rods, one common issue I often find is a a bit of deformation on the lower side of the crown. This happens from pushing out a jag, brush or patch from the rear and when the rods working tip clears the muzzle, the bare rod drops down on the lower side of the crown. No, a muzzle guide does not prevent this. This can easily be avoided by cleaning the rifle in a verticle position, but most people I know still do clean with the rifle horizontal.

Post #11 h t t p s://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=735801

For those unable to find or fashion a muzzle guide, it might be best to use a cleaning rod from the breech end with a good fitting bore guide.

As for pulling a brush or jag back through the bore after pushing it through, rifle makers like Anschutz recommend cleaning in one direction only. The very practical reason for this recommendation is to reduce the risk of damaging the muzzle/crown. Gunmakers no doubt prefer to minimize the chances of damage caused by cleaning that is not done as carefully as possible and so recommend shooters to clean in one direction only, from breech to muzzle. It's simpler and more straightforward that way.

In addition to this cautionary advice from rifle makers, when going from breech to muzzle there's the satisfaction of knowing that the cleaning is pushing fouling out of the bore rather than pulling it back toward the action and trigger area.

No doubt many shooters have read on the internet that "more damage is done to rifles by cleaning than by shooting". Like many things on the internet, it may not be entirely true. Cleaning itself doesn't damage the bore. It's over-aggressive and over-zealous cleaning done without using the proper tools. If using a cleaning rod, use a bore guide. Never force anything. Don't go bat crap crazy on cleaning. Do it with care and due caution. In non-competitive shooting, a .22LR barrel should outlast it's first owner.

In the end shooters should clean their rifles as needed and using methods that give them positive results.

 

[dizzy]

Dizzy, that’s interesting about the muzzle and the crown and how it could be affected by passing a wire brush through it. Is this still the case though if the crown/barrel are made from hardened steel and the brushes all seem to be softer copper? As is probably apparent, I’m new to precision shooting. I understand that protecting the crown of the barrel will protect the way that the barrel is meant to perform, but if you don’t ever touch the muzzle with a more abrasive brush type device and only use cleaning chemicals with patches, how would you clean the muzzle effectively when the time is right?

As for the cleaning materials being softer than the barrel material that is true. Carbon on the other hand can get hard and it sticks o. The brush or in the fibres of a bore snake. Once you cook off a round the residue from the primer and powder can be hard little ‘Crystals’ which can then act like microscopic sand paper.

As for “top shooters” who tend to push or pull anything into the muzzle and back to the chamber. Just because they are top shooters doesn’t mean they know physics. I am guessing very few have observed crowns under electron microscopes to inspect the health of the crown. If more folks understood the science of why the crown is so important and then protected a healthy crown accuracy would likely improve and in some cases a lot.

Again just my opinion

 

[manitou210]

Bore snake and precision should not beused in same sentance

 

[lucas.c]

I feel like I’m getting way more solid info from this thread than I was anticipating. Kudos to everyone bringing good info into the convo. Seems like the consensus is that most would

- Use a bore guide or muzzle guide to protect the crown from the cleaning rod vs the actual copper/bronze brush and then pull brushes and patches from the breach to the muzzle.

- Cleaning only between shooting different brands of ammo due to the different types of lubricants used from brand to brand.

- Once you have your ammo of choice, only clean the bore when you start to notice a drop in accuracy. die to excess fouling/carbon build up where you are leaving the ’sweet spot’ of a barrel that is the right amount of dirty.

- A more thorough cleaning perhaps after 500-2000 rounds

As I probably mentioned I’m new to precision shooting and admit that I’ve got a lot to learn in terms of what needs to be done to squeeze the most accuracy potential out of these purpose built firearms. So this will likely be my cleaning regiment until I decide it’s not working and decide to try something different.

Lastly, manitou210 is that actually true? Is there some reasoning to back up the fact that rods, brushes, and patches would be the better way to go vs pulling a bore snake through the barrel? I just tried to look into this but mostly what I have seen is that it’s the ‘purists’ who say that the cleaning rod system is better. Now that could totally hold truth, I just haven’t seen anyone with a real explanation convince me. Using a boresnake definitely seems to be a much quicker method of cleaning the barrel on the fly but I know that sometimes you don’t want to half ass certain things.

Thanks y’all

 

[grauhanen]

- Use a bore guide or muzzle guide to protect the crown from the cleaning rod vs the actual copper/bronze brush and then pull brushes and patches from the breach to the muzzle.

- Cleaning only between shooting different brands of ammo due to the different types of lubricants used from brand to brand.

- Once you have your ammo of choice, only clean the bore when you start to notice a drop in accuracy. die to excess fouling/carbon build up where you are leaving the ’sweet spot’ of a barrel that is the right amount of dirty.

- A more thorough cleaning perhaps after 500-2000 rounds

Is there some reasoning to back up the fact that rods, brushes, and patches would be the better way to go vs pulling a bore snake through the barrel? I just tried to look into this but mostly what I have seen is that it’s the ‘purists’ who say that the cleaning rod system is better. Now that could totally hold truth, I just haven’t seen anyone with a real explanation convince me. Using a boresnake definitely seems to be a much quicker method of cleaning the barrel on the fly but I know that sometimes you don’t want to half ass certain things.

Unless you can find a muzzle guide (I've never seen one first hand), use a bore guide and clean from the breech. Bore guides are specifically made for many different rifles and they are about $25.

The original question asked about cleaning at the range. There's no harm to putting a patch or two through the bore while at the range. Only a few foulers are required to return to accuracy. At the same time there's no reason to be very concerned if you don't clean at all while at the range, especially if you begin the day with a clean bore.

Some rifles will develop a carbon ring just ahead of the chamber. Carbon rings can occur after as little as a few hundred rounds, sometimes more, depending on the individual rifle, possibly on the ammo used as well. Carbon rings will rob the rifle of accuracy. Appropriate solvents and/or brushing will prevent their build up or eliminate them once they've occurred.

One of the most basic arguments against using a bore snake is that unless the snake itself is cleaned it becomes contaminated with the abrasives of the primer compound as well as the other detritus in the bore. Patches on the other hand, get replaced after each use. No one would want to use the same patch over and over again to clean the bore.

 

[dizzy]

Lucas. Granite stone for years was cut with cotton string. It’s wasn’t the string that cut the stone it was the sand embedded in the string. As the previous poster said unless your ‘snake’ is debris free it can damage both the bore and the crown. The issue with them is there is so much material for debris to hide in. A perfectly clean snake will never hurt a barrel.

 

[cycbb486]

the only thing I've noticed about leaving the bore dirty is the burnt powder residue will attract moisture and create a "pebbled" surface in the bore. the effect is especially bad in winter because the powder doesn't burn near as completely as in summer. really didn't like the view in my borescope. lesson learned.

Bang on.....

Now I wonder how many people know or have seen that? I did not know that until recently. Horrified when I seen that in my Benchmark barrel. I was never concerned about my rimfire as I was my centerfires. Was I ever wrong. Stings when you see a match barrel looking like that. Does it affect accuracy? Hard to say now. All I do know is after I am done a match a few patches go down the bore to get rid of the powder residue......