Bore obstruction

[guntech]

A neighbour phoned me this week.. he had fired a reload with no powder (An older .300 Savage 99 in beautiful condition) and the bullet was fully lodged in the rifling , just out of the neck of the brass... he tried tapping it out with a cleaning rod to no avail and called me...

I said bring it over...

I ended up using a 1/4 inch steel rod about 3 inches beyond the muzzle in length. I used heavy PVC tape wrapped around the rod so it was a slip fit in the .30 caliber bore... it was machined with a flat end.

Held the barrel hard in a vise and tapped on the rod fairly hard with a hammer and placed a piece of masking tape at the muzzle to measure progress. The rod moved a little as the bullet tip deformed...

I ended up using a 2 pound hand sledge and pounded hard on the rod... so hard the end I was hitting was deforming a lot... I managed to keep the rod straight though...

It must have been close to 50 hard blows before the bullet started to move... an eighth inch, a quarter inch... and then out... cleaned the barrel and it looks perfect...

It is surprising the force of a primer... and it is surprising how much force it takes to move a jacketed bullet in a barrel.

 

[Janeau]

First..I would have never used a steel rod but a brass rod.
Two..did you use lube - wd40 and the like ?
Third did you push it from the beach toward or barrel end ? Hammering on the nose of the bullet swage the bullet into the bore wall.
Same if you use too much force on the back.

 

[guntech]

First I would never use a wood dowel nor a brass rod... a protected snug fitting steel rod is so much better than a brass rod when force is required.

Second I would never try to drive it the length of the barrel when it only needs to travel the length of the bullet in the other direction.

 

[tiriaq]

Another option is to make a close fitting plunger that will just enter the muzzle. Fill the barrel with oil, start the plunger into the bore, and whack it with a hammer. The hydraulic pressure should move the bullet.
Note - Keep in mind that there will be a release of oil. This is also an effective and safe way of removing a live round stuck in the chamber.

 

[bearhunter]

First..I would have never used a steel rod but a brass rod.
Two..did you use lube - wd40 and the like ?
Third did you push it from the beach toward or barrel end ? Hammering on the nose of the bullet swage the bullet into the bore wall.
Same if you use too much force on the back.

Did you actually read what guntech wrote??

Without taking off the barrel, how would you knock out the bullet from the breech end?

If you actually believe WD40 or any other penetrant will loosen up a copper jacket that's been forced into a steel bore, you haven't done this before.

As for a brass rod? WHY? guntech took the proper precautions by wrapping the steel rod, likely drill rod, with heavy PVC tape, which is equivalent to the coatings on most cleaning rods. Brass rods are to flexible for this job. I've learned that the hard way from experience. This happens more often than many know.

Since Christmas, I've had to remove two stuck bullets from different Lee Enfields. A No1 and a No4.

In both instances, the owners, being cheap buggers, used pliers to pull some surplus bullets, then reloaded those bullets into non corrosive primed cases. Just like the fellow guntech was dealing with, the powder charge somehow was missed in the process. Both of the fellows are friends and share the loading equipment. A few hits from the homegrown doesn't help much.

I also used a taped up 36inch length of 1/4in drill rod to tap out the bullets from the muzzle end. I didn't use a vice though I just put the butts onto a lead block on the floor and used a 2 pound ball been hammer to give the rod a good solid hit. They both came free with only a few good hits.

The 99 has a rather weak buttstock fitment and it's quite easily broken. I would have used a barrel vice as well to remove that obstruction.

 

[quinnbrian]

Did you actually read what guntech wrote??

Without taking off the barrel, how would you knock out the bullet from the breech end?

If you actually believe WD40 or any other penetrant will loosen up a copper jacket that's been forced into a steel bore, you haven't done this before.

As for a brass rod? WHY? guntech took the proper precautions by wrapping the steel rod, likely drill rod, with heavy PVC tape, which is equivalent to the coatings on most cleaning rods. Brass rods are to flexible for this job. I've learned that the hard way from experience. This happens more often than many know.

Since Christmas, I've had to remove two stuck bullets from different Lee Enfields. A No1 and a No4.

In both instances, the owners, being cheap buggers, used pliers to pull some surplus bullets, then reloaded those bullets into non corrosive primed cases. Just like the fellow guntech was dealing with, the powder charge somehow was missed in the process. Both of the fellows are friends and share the loading equipment. A few hits from the homegrown doesn't help much.

I also used a taped up 36inch length of 1/4in drill rod to tap out the bullets from the muzzle end. I didn't use a vice though I just put the butts onto a lead block on the floor and used a 2 pound ball been hammer to give the rod a good solid hit. They both came free with only a few good hits.

The 99 has a rather weak buttstock fitment and it's quite easily broken. I would have used a barrel vice as well to remove that obstruction.

Ouch .....
I was wondering... when “the first... and the second” was going to go bad.

 

[Suther]

Thanks for sharing this. I haven't had a stuck bullet yet, but its nice to hear about successful stories in fixing issues. I'm the real gun nut within my group of friends, so if they ever manage to do this then I'll likely be getting a phone call about it. Or you know, maybe I'll screw up and do it to my own gun, thats always a possibility too.

 

[quinnbrian]

Thanks for sharing this. I haven't had a stuck bullet yet, but its nice to hear about successful stories in fixing issues. I'm the real gun nut within my group of friends, so if they ever manage to do this then I'll likely be getting a phone call about it. Or you know, maybe I'll screw up and do it to my own gun, thats always a possibility too.

Now , there’s a little nicer response. I too have uses a steel drill rod, as long as it was very close to the right size ( shooo, don’t tell anyone).
I too have had also used the old , hammer the S%#t out of it, and did know how it was going to turn out... but it did work. Never seen a use for brass rod and a hammer, unless it a suck bolt ,and you don’t want to ruin the other piece it’s going though...
I’ve always thought about using the Hydromatic method , but was always worried about “ Hydromatic bulge “ you can make a lot of pressure with just a little grease and a good fitting pin. But like I said, never tried it....one of these day..
Keep up the good work, with out this forum ( and a couple more) we would all still be in the Stone Age.. trying to “ reinvent the wheel”
Cheers
Play safe( together that is lol )
Brian

 

[trevj]

Yeah. Tape the living heck outta the rod, = no damage whatsoever, and even if the rod upsets (gets fatter) a bit, no possible harm to do.

I like my hydraulic press!

No worrying about hitting the wrong thing on a bad swing!

I'll be buggered before I will try pushing ANY obstruction out by the long way!

 

[legi0n]

how about using a blank given that the bullet was lodged in the chamber side of the bbl?

 

[Levon12345]

That could be a dangerous move as the pressure spike to overcome the inertia of a bullet lodged in the rifling (instead of the bullet having the freebore or leade it would normally have when fired properly from a cartridge) could cause a bulge in the barrel. Especially if the bullet is lodged in a section of barrel that has less wall thickness than the area around the chamber.

 

[legi0n]

in this case "the bullet was fully lodged in the rifling , just out of the neck of the brass"

 

[tiriaq]

how about using a blank given that the bullet was lodged in the chamber side of the bbl?

That could be a dangerous move as the pressure spike to overcome the inertia of a bullet lodged in the rifling (instead of the bullet having the freebore or leade it would normally have when fired properly from a cartridge) could cause a bulge in the barrel. Especially if the bullet is lodged in a section of barrel that has less wall thickness than the area around the chamber.

in this case "the bullet was fully lodged in the rifling , just out of the neck of the brass"

It has been done, successfully and without harm. Pull the bullet from another round, dump a bit of the powder, load and fire.
Whether or not it is a good idea is moot.
It has been done during shooting matches when a bullet was left in the bore because the round was too long, and the bullet stayed behind when there was an "unload".
It was not unusual for vintage target rifles to have the bullet muzzle loaded and the case and powder charge breech loaded. Or the bullet would be set into the rifling from the breech using a tool that gave mechanical leverage.

If a bullet or other obstruction is further down the barrel, any attempt to shoot it out might very well be a bad idea. I have seen lots of barrels damaged - bulged, split broken - by being fired with an obstruction.

 

[guntech]

I am conducting a little test on the force required to seat a jacketed bullet from sitting in the throat to be pushed 3/4's of an inch into the rifling.

I am using a piece of new barrel and a 300 grain .338 bullet.

I have a friend with a press that will do this over the weekend.

I will post the results soon.

 

[DavenK]

I am conducting a little test on the force required to seat a jacketed bullet from sitting in the throat to be pushed 3/4's of an inch into the rifling.

I am using a piece of new barrel and a 300 grain .338 bullet.

I have a friend with a press that will do this over the weekend.

I will post the results soon.

Now thats cool !
Post updates ?

 

[Potashminer]

Guntech - Just to clarify for some of us that are "denser" than others - you cut the start of a chamber - the "throat" part - into a .338 rifled barrel stub - and are going to press that .338 bullet more or less 3/4" into the lands, and measure the force required to do so??

I am assuming your picture is showing that bullet "sitting" on the leade - on the beginning of the lands. If so, simply outstanding thing to do - I am very much looking forward to hearing what the results came out as!!! I have no easy way to replicate that - so will be learning from your experiment!!!

I have never fired 300 grain bullets from my own 338 Win Mag, but have sent many 250 grain Sierra SPBT down that tube - very interested to hear what kind of forces were involved!!!

 

[Quiet]

Decades ago when I started long range competitive shooting, I learned about why you only load for yourself when I made the mistake of letting an 'expert' talk me into letting him make "match" reloads for me the night before a shoot, instead of using military ball. He drank while reloading as I soon found out, and I ended up going into the shoot with a handful of the .308 rounds having live primers and no powder.
180gr Sierra Matchking in a .308 Win case with Federal primers. I was able to clear the obstructions on the firing point during the match as each of the bullets came out of the chamber end with just the weight of a Parker Hale cleaning rod, while the muzzle was still pointed basically down range. (FYI I did switch back to military ball during the match)

I wonder if the .300 Savage got more stuck because of the smaller case capacity for the primer gasses to expand in? What kind of bullet and primers were used?

 

[Potashminer]

A good anecdote. I always wondered how that worked - just wild ass guess that way more work required to force new bullet completely into rifling, to engrave the riflings for full length of the bullet jacket, but then would think force gets less, since only sliding resistance is left for trip up the bore - assuming rifling twist rate and groove diameter stays the same. What will be good to hear from Guntech's test - actual numbers of force required...

 

[guntech]

Guntech - Just to clarify for some of us that are "denser" than others - you cut the start of a chamber - the "throat" part - into a .338 rifled barrel stub - and are going to press that .338 bullet more or less 3/4" into the lands, and measure the force required to do so??

I am assuming your picture is showing that bullet "sitting" on the leade - on the beginning of the lands. If so, simply outstanding thing to do - I am very much looking forward to hearing what the results came out as!!! I have no easy way to replicate that - so will be learning from your experiment!!!

I have never fired 300 grain bullets from my own 338 Win Mag, but have sent many 250 grain Sierra SPBT down that tube - very interested to hear what kind of forces were involved!!!

Yes the throat has been cut so the transition to the rifling is similar... the bullet is just sitting there now...

I have also made up one in 7mm and rods for forcing the bullets back out... measuring the force required to engrave the bullet fully... and the force required to push it back out.

I will start a new thread with the required info in a day or two...

 

[AikiNut]

Never had it happen with a rifle round but have had to pound a lead bullet out of a GSP .32 barrel. That took enough force.. Was able to continue the match, and a lot more careful reloading after that.