BOTR : L1A1 good and bad points

[Sharps '74]

That is patently ridiculous. Why do you think the Canadian Army has always offered different butt lengths if not for shooter comfort?

After my basic with 2nd Bn PPCLI, I went Signals. Over the next 12 years, I did considerable shooting with the CI and C2 on unit and Command teams here and in Germany. That's where I had the experience of shooting the Cetme.

Have you ever shot a heavy calibre rifle or 12 ga shotgun with an ill-fitting stock? Tell me you enjoyed the experience.

And no - I did not wear corrective lenses.

 

[AP]

That is patently ridiculous. Why do you think the Canadian Army has always offered different butt lengths if not for shooter comfort?

After my basic with 2nd Bn PPCLI, I went Signals. Over the next 12 years, I did considerable shooting with the CI and C2 on unit and Command teams here and in Germany. That's where I had the experience of shooting the Cetme.

Have you ever shot a heavy calibre rifle or 12 ga shotgun with an ill-fitting stock? Tell me you enjoyed the experience.

And no - I did not wear corrective lenses.

I think you mentioned earlier

Then you had the wrong butt length for you. They came with butt stocks marked with the length: S (short), N (normal), L (long), etc.

.. actually there were 4 butt lengths.... but you probably never saw an 'extra long' ... few people did. The difference in length from the shortest to the longest (ie extra long) is/was 1 3/4"..... I could add 1 3/4" of 'LOP' simply by putting on a sweater and a combat jacket with liner and webbing. Never mind a parka and whites ... all to say that most people could not expect to be issued a rifle that would fit them under all conditions... but yes ... I was in a fortunate position where I could regularly try every stock length - and it made SFA difference to the recoil effect on my cheek.... an effect that it had on many shooters I know. Have a closer look at the rear of the action and the drop on the stock and direction of recoil... and I think you will understand why this effect was so common and pronounced. If you didnt experience it ... you were lucky. If you did any coaching at all ....you would have been quite familar with the results of the design on new and experienced shooters alike. This was one of the reasons that we saw dramatic improvements in qualification scores when the C7 was introduced with SARP --- pre optics. I dont want to get into a pissing contest ... I just want to remind people that the C1 was not the 'glorious' weapon that our dim memories conjur up.

As for how long I was exposed to the C1 ... well I saw the first one sent out for unit trials to the RCR (in Germany) and watched the last one taken out of a reserve unit's arsenal when we finished SARP.

 

[fleabaggins]

I doubt full auto would work with a lighter and shorter when it didn't work with the heavier.

I have to disagree - I spent a couple of years in the Canadian military, and was always given the C2 (yes, that makes me an old fart!!). However, the "old C2" was 100% reliable with ball rounds or with blanks. I really enjoyed it, although a belt fed weapon would have been more enjoyalel than the 30 rd mags. Just my experience.....

 

[oppy]

... the Canadian version of the Brit L1A1 rifle, our FN C1A1, manufactured by Canadian Arsenals Limited ...

Hate to be pedantic (but it's the internet so I guess that makes it okay), but the Canada did the inch pattern drawings for the C1 and was the first country to adopt it. I guess that makes the L1 the variant.

Regardless, like you, fond memories of my C1A1. The C2, not so much.

 

[Curtton]

I have to disagree - I spent a couple of years in the Canadian military, and was always given the C2 (yes, that makes me an old fart!!). However, the "old C2" was 100% reliable with ball rounds or with blanks. I really enjoyed it, although a belt fed weapon would have been more enjoyalel than the 30 rd mags. Just my experience.....

We were talking about the c1 not the c2.

They tested the c1 in full auto and it was deemed uncontrollable.

 

[Curtton]

I never experienced cheek slap bcuz I preferred using longer stock .

 

[woodchopper]

We were talking about the c1 not the c2.

They tested the c1 in full auto and it was deemed uncontrollable.

and yet they made the C1D for the Navy which had the full auto selector.

should of just made it in the 280 Enfield (7x43mm) calibre like they originally planned

 

[tacfoley]

Here in UK I spent two years with the SLR, as we called the L1A1, in the Territorial Army, and then the next twenty-five years as an NCO and then officer after 1984, even going as far as to buy my own around 1975 from Parker-Hale. It came with an early form of the dreaded plastic furniture, which I instantly changed out for some proper wooden bits. After the Hungerford massacre in 1987, I, and everyone else who owned a centre-fire semi-auto, had to hand our privately-owned guns in for destruction. I'm happy to say that mine went to a shooter in Belgium, who actually worked at FN making the FAL.

In all that time, owning my own, and one belonging to the Queen, I was never let down in any way by the gun. I've never forgiven the politicians who took my guns away, whilst expecting me to use them to defend their sorry butts from harm.

tac

 

[Tex Critter]

Well, I really enjoyed shooting that rifle. I know many soldiers loved the C7 when it was introduced because of lower recoil, lighter weight, able to hump more ammo with it etc. I still preferred the C1 over the C7 poodle shooter.

 

[albayo]

I see Epps sold a C1 A1 in the past few weeks it was priced in the $650 range.
If I had seen it earlier it would be on its way to my safe.

 

[diopter]

While we're at it, more eye candy.

 

[Sharps '74]

I think you mentioned earlier .. actually there were 4 butt lengths.... but you probably never saw an 'extra long' ... few people did. The difference in length from the shortest to the longest (ie extra long) is/was 1 3/4".....

Actually, I did encounter a C1 with the XL butt length. We were rehearsing for a parade for our RC Sigs CiC at Vimy Barracks and were issued a different rifle every time we hit the square. I quickly looked for the right marker of my Troop and we made a quick swap. After dismissal, we swapped back again.

US service rifles have always had a one size fits all stock, usually too short for most, necessitating keeping your thumb aligned with the stock to avoid a bump on the nose. Both my '03 Springfield and M1 have short LOP which suits me just fine.

When we are talking length of pull, 3/4" makes a BIG difference. I long ago determined that a 13" LOP is ideal for me regardless of action type - rifle or shotgun. I asked a big guy if he was happy with his .22 Henry lever action carbine, a 'Youth' model that has a 13" LOP. He told me that he didn't realize he had bought the Youth model until he got it home. After shooting it he decided that he was not going to part with it.

All of my Uberti, Rossi and Browning CAS rifles have a 13" LOP. Works for me.

 

[Sharps '74]

We were talking about the c1 not the c2.

They tested the c1 in full auto and it was deemed uncontrollable.

When my ex-wife was Firearms Registrar for the rcmp, she ID'd a package of parts that were dumped on her desk, found on a couple of drug dealers. She opened the copy of Small Arms of the World that I gave her when she got the job and there they were - a three shot escapement mechanism for the FN FAL!

This would make the FAL more viable than in FA mode.

 

[zupermann]

I see Epps sold a C1 A1 in the past few weeks it was priced in the $650 range.
If I had seen it earlier it would be on its way to my safe.

I always wanted one of the 8L OPP rifles.

And the FN para (folder) model.

 

[Curtton]

I think you mentioned earlier .. actually there were 4 butt lengths.... but you probably never saw an 'extra long' ... few people did.

I saw quite a few XL spares butt stocks in our weapons tech unit, can't remember if I saw many on the rifles.

 

[points]

I loved my FN. 6 years as an armourer and countless thousands of rounds down range. Now, sadly, I am looking at buying a friends prohib and dewatting it. I want an fn but welded solid is the only way I can own one.

 

[Juster]

Anyone got a light?

 

[The Wizard]

I posted the link to BOTR's L1A1 video over on The Fal Files and it has been view over 170 times but one has posted a reply. I guess they were not very impressed over there.

 

[Sharps '74]

I loved my FN. 6 years as an armourer and countless thousands of rounds down range. Now, sadly, I am looking at buying a friends prohib and dewatting it. I want an fn but welded solid is the only way I can own one.

Why would you want to? I've never understood the appeal of a welded/dewatted firearm. Better it be melted as scrap into a useful gun of a socially acceptable type.

 

[points]

Why would you want to? I've never understood the appeal of a welded/dewatted firearm. Better it be melted as scrap into a useful gun of a socially acceptable type.

A welded up fn is the only way I can own one. You must have missed that part. I have a collection of almost all of the rifles from Snider Enfield to Long Branch #4s that were in Canadian service. They are in a display area and an fn like the one I carried in the cold war would round out the display. And display is the key word. It is for the look of it. I am also considering a dewat Bren for the same reason.