Bottom pour Vs ladle

[John Y Cannuck]

Ok, the heading didn't state it, so I'll state it now we're talking bullet casting here.
So this is an historical discussion of stuff I found out the hard way.

For many years I cast bullets using an open ladle.

This type is only slightly better than an old spoon. It works, but there are issues. You must keep the surface of the melt quite clean as you are drawing your lead from there, and can get slag in your bullets if it isn't clean. Stirring and fluxing is a constant process as you work. Easy to do with an open pot, but time consuming.

Next, a freind loaned me his bottom pour lead pot. COOL!

Very much like the above.
But then I found out that all is not perfect here either. The melt must be clean here as well, and it must be clean BEFORE it goes in the pot, as at least in this case, the opening at the top made it difficult to remove dross that floated to the top. I had as usual simply filled the pot full of old wheel weights, exactly as I had got them figuring on skimming the dross. Here I also found out that not all dirt and crap floats on the lead. It casts very fast, with just stick the mould under tripp the handle and open the mould, but.. I had a horrifying experience when I tripped the lever, the lead filled the mould, I closed the lever, but the hot lead continued to flow! WTF! I furiously opened and closed the valve to no avail. I was totally unprepared for the burning hot lead that now flowed across the bench setting fire to whatever it touched. I ran and grabbed a pot and jammed it into the small opening below the spigot. I ran into the house and got a low baking pan. Saved.
The melt pretty much emptied the pot before I was finally able to get it to stop by bouncing the valve open and shut.
Now I understood why he had said that he melts all his lead into ingots with an old pot before re-melting them into the bottom pour.

Ok, so a bottom pour required more care in dealing with the lead than I was prepared to do. I cleaned up the pot, and returned it with thanks.

Next I got myself a proper casting ladle, or as Lyman calls it, a casting dipper.

This allowed me to have the best of both worlds.

How?

Roll the spigot side of the ladle deeper into the lead melt allowing the melt to flow into the ladle through the spout normally used to hold against and fill the mould. This draws lead from deeper in the melt, where it is dross free. This also has the side benefit of clearing the spigot.

You don't have to skim as often, but you still need to stir to keep your tin in the melt.
This is where I settled, and being a cheapskate, where I will likely continue. I melt my lead in an old stainless steel pot on a propane camp stove out in the garage with the doors open.

Oh yes, the pot... I had a bad experience with a thin aluminum pot years ago. Good thing that was over a concrete floor. Pot melted, lead poured out in an unstoppable mass. Just get the hell away and watch it. Lead sticks to your hide if you get any on you and continues to burn you until it cools.

.

 

[Skinny 1950]

Thanks for posting this...I was considering buying a bottom pour pot like that and then started thinking how difficult it would be to switch from soft lead to harder alloy's.
If I were using the same lead all the time the bottom pour might be the way to go,I am going to stick with my open pan for now.

 

[vagrantviking]

Got to admit that I've used both quite a bit and have a love-hate relationship with both styles.

Fewer surprises like the lead waterfall you mention with a dipper but its also less tiring and faster to use a bottom pour when its not dripping or you aren't trying to dig the dross out from behind the tap mechanism.

Plan to take a closer look at the higher end pots one of these days and see if it might be worth upgrading. Something with a thermocouple temp regulating system might be nice too...

 

[kman300]

That bottom pour led pot sounds like a terrifying ordeal. I use a dipper in a cast iron pot outside on a camp stove. Easy to skim off the top and like you said submerse the dipper and it works just great.

 

[hk33ka1]

I melt all my scrap lead into ingots in an old propane tanke cut in half on top of a Bass Pro Turkey Fryer. I had someone make me molds out of a piece of angle iron with ends welded on to act as legs so I get toblerone shapped ingots. I also pour some in muffin tins. Many people including myself found out that if you melt dirty wheel weights in your casting pot they make a mess of it and can stick the bottom pour valve open. Clean lead ingots only in it now.

I then melt these in a Lee 10lb or 20lb bottom pour pot. I had the Production pot IV 10lb first and moved up to the Pro 4-20 20lb. I kept the 10lb for pure lead for black powder stuff.

Although I do not ladle cast much, I hear from the old guys on Cast Boolits that when pouring heavier rifle bullets like 350gr+ you will get much more consistant boolits ladle pouring instead of bottom pour. I usually bottom pour though. Yes the pots can leak and you should not leave a hot or heating up pot unattended especially in your house or shop incase it leaks all out on the floor.

I had the Bass Pro stand collapse on the lawn with 200lbs in it and make a mess. I now place the burner assembly on a different stronger stand, but for normal weights of 40-60lbs the stock stand is fine.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

That bottom pour led pot sounds like a terrifying ordeal. I use a dipper in a cast iron pot outside on a camp stove. Easy to skim off the top and like you said submerse the dipper and it works just great.

It's not as bad as it sounds, lead comes out fast when it's leaking but it's a small hole.

The bottom pour works very well and is the fastest setup, if your melt is clean.

But if you work with old wheel weights and scrap lead pipe etc, like many of us do, that can be a challenge. It adds another step, cleaning, melting fluxing, skimming, and making ingots.

 

[f55]

My lee pot has been great, no leaks but then again i only used it to melt shot

 

[cariboo 221]

I find I like the dipper with some of the larger moulds, but the bottom pour seems faster and easier with the rest.
With my old lee 30+ years and well over a ton cast, I keep a pan under it to catch the drip and often toss the stalagmite back into the melt. As the thermostat is froze on high I keep adding small ingots or sometimes unplug the unit so the melt does not get to hot.

 

[Spawn-Inc]

Not to sound insulting, but its a production pot, not a smelting pot. That should be done before hand. It doesn't have to be super clean, but it will drip with the lee pots. As said above I use an old pressure container on a Turkey fryer to smelt and clean lead.

 

[dthunter]

I used a Lee 10lb bottom pour for over 10 years. It leaked the day I bought it, untill the day I trashed it.
No matter what you do, it isnt a Fool/leak proof design. Out of frustration, I purchased a 20lb lee pot. Also got the Lyman ladel.

I proceeded to cast one at a Time, all the while feeling choked that I dont have a bottom pour pot anymore!

After casting 3-4 pots worth of bullets I proceeded to do my bullet inspection/weight segregation. I shoot these Lyman#311299, 200 gr bullets in my target .308Win.

I could not believe how consistant The bullets were!
Now I realize that ladel pouring my bullets is slower, but more consistant.
I was annoyed at Being slowed down at first, BUT I will ladel cast bullets from now on!

I have managed to get these bullets shooting 1Moa or
Better at times! And the velocities I have reached are around 2250-2400 fps! Great performance to say the least!

Hopefully other casters can benifit from my frustrations, and subsequent learnings.

Keep it fun you gunnutz!

 

[Mark-II]

My Lee pot will drip when it gets quite hot. I just run a T-pin held into some pliers to clean out the spout, though, and it's a slow drip. Not bothersome, really.

If/when it jams and pours out. Well, I keep an ingot mould near to catch that, and I just give the top of the rod a few light taps with the plastic mallet that I use to empty the bullet mould - fixes it.

I don't skim terribly often and, yes, I only smelt the alloy ingots in it, as is proper. I have so much ball to run, from so many different moulds, that I could not imagine faffing about with a ladle. I just want to get the stuff cast.

Lee pots are cheap, but the next option on bottom pours from Lyman or RCBS cost in the hundreds, so I'll stick with my drippy pot. It does the job that it is meant to, and works to its price point, like most Lee gear.

For consistency I just watch the bullets coming out. If they start getting a bit frosty I know to either slow down and let the mould cool a little, or turn down the heat. Likewise if the sprue is taking too long to set up I know the mould is getting over warm.

These days if I can buy ready cast and sized ball for a reasonable price at the gun shows, for pistol if nothing else, I go that route. It's not really worth it for the rifle stuff though, pricewise, even if available in the first place.

 

[Gas Can]

Guess I am just luck but I havn't had any issues with my Lee bottolm pour.

I don't think I would have enought patients to do a ladle

GC