BP in modern lever guns?

MosinMan13

MosinMan13

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
18   0   0
Location
Thornbury Ontario
Does anybody do it? I’ve really enjoyed my time loading for my antique revolvers and black powder is a hoot to shoot, I understand in theory any manual action modern smokeless rifle in theory (speaking mostly in terms of cartridges that stem from BP era) can fire BP.

If anyone does do it, is it sustainable with thorough cleaning?

Will I wreck a good gun?
 
We spend all winter at our local club shooting black powder cartridge rifles - big bores with lead bullets and iron sights.

A tiny minority use the holy black - most use the black powder substitutes. Triple7 has largely replaced Blackhorn209 due to availability and cost.

Cleanup is very straightforward, and it is challenging shooting due to the (relatively) low velocities. We shoot at metal targets at 50, 75 and 100 yards.

Nobody has wrecked a gun in the 10 years that we have been doing this! Many folks shoot Marlin lever rifles as they take down easily for a proper cleaning from the breach.

Good luck.

.
 
I have shot a lot of BP in in many different guns. Haven’t found one it won’t work in. The smaller your bore I found BP fouling built up quicker than a big bore. Works well in 30-30 and 303. I tried it in my 44 magnum and found it gave very good groups as long as every second shot I ran a wet bore snake through.
 
I had a Marlin 1894 in 45 Colt that was a lot of fun with black powder. It was easy to take apart to clean, and had a bit of a sloppy chamber so you could shoot a lot of shots in a row before fouling became a problem. It was probably a little more accurate with black powder than it was with Unique.

Chris.
 
I have Shiloh 1874s, 1873, Winchester 60, 66, 73, 86 that I shoot BP cartridges through. They have not seen a smokeless round through them. I clean the same process that I clean the 1874s except that the Winchesters are done from the muzzles with a muzzle guide and I turn the rifle upside down in the vise. i place a wad of paper towel in the breach to absorb any fluid that may end up there. I have used a corded cleaning system to clean from the breach but I prefer using a rod as I get a better feel of the bore.
 
antiqueguy said:
I have thought about filling the case of the .458 win mag with black powder and giving it a go it’s basically a belted .45-90.
Click to expand...

I bought a Win Mod 70 in .458 precisely for that reason 45 yrs ago, long before the resurgence in cowboy/buffalo era calibers made them plentiful as they are now. I wanted a repeater that would use enough BP to be used as a hunting rifle...it worked beautifully until I got into the SS rabbit hole and i sold it.
 
For all my black powder guns I use one of the old brass pump fire extinguishers.I fill it up with hot soapy water put the plastic nozzle into the bore of the muzzleloaders or breech of a cartridge gun and give it a couple of pumps then follow up with some patches until the bore is dry then oil it up.Cartridge guns are a little bit more of a pain because you also have to clean the brass cases as well
 
A while back I used to shoot an M95 Winchester, chambered for the 303Brit, with black powder, under 200 grain, round nose, cast lead bullets.

I used as much Goex FFFG as I could compress into the cases with OAL at about max for reliable feeding.

The rifle easily handled these loads but accuracy would fall off pretty quickly.

Powder Coated bullets made quite a bit of a difference.

The thrill soon wore off.

I also had a Winchester, mod 94, in 38-55 that was not "nitro proofed" I believe it was a ''first model'' very early production.

I shot a couple of hundred BP rounds through it and sold it.

It had been ridden hard and the bore was rough, but it shot cast lead, heeled, .385 diameter bullets quite well.
 
I think the only downside of black powder in a lever gun like a Winchester 86 or 94, is that it would be a major hassle cleaning the fouling out of the mechanism after shooting as well as probably spilling water into the action while cleaning the barrel with warm water

cheers mooncoon
 
I shot a lot of BP 38 specials out of a Rossi 92 clone, it worked well, even in a high round day like a CAS match. Having some vegetable oil in a dropper helped keep the action lubicated, but I didn't have to use it much.

After the match I'd clean the barrel and then hose the action out with spray cleaner and then a spray lubricant. The magazine tube got a good cleaning with patches and a pull through and I didn't have any rust problems. I made sure to break the rifle down at the end of the season and do a detail clean but fouling was never a problem.
 
Tudenom said:
I shot a lot of BP 38 specials out of a Rossi 92 clone, it worked well, even in a high round day like a CAS match. Having some vegetable oil in a dropper helped keep the action lubicated, but I didn't have to use it much.
Click to expand...

Amazing! Sounds like my experience so far! Just a little update I did follow the rabbit hole and ended up producing what I find a really accurate and enjoyable load! Which has by far won me over smokeless.

That said I’m onto new questions.

Any advice for fouling? Is there a home brew cleaner for lead fouling and is there such thing as shooting it too much in between cleaning? Just want to make sure I don’t damage my bore by running it nasty.
 
You shouldn't get lead fouling if things are working as they should. Copper Chore-boy pot scrubber is the best thing I've found for lead.

To keep the bp fouling from getting too hard and compacted you need to use a bp formula lube and bullets that have big enough groovesto carry plenty. There should be a nice star of lube on the muzzle.

If it is caking up and getting hard you may want to run a patch every so many rounds. Leave a fired case in the chamber and run the patch from the muzzle using a brass or plastic muzzle guide.
 
MosinMan13 : Follow vagrantviking's suggestions.

Use a bp-compatible lube(non petroleum based). With a suitable bullet. The bigger and more lube grooves, the better.

Note: Look up "big lube" bullets. May offer some idea what sort of bullet to look for. Also: the more grooves, the better. More lube capacity.

As already mentioned, check the end of the muzzle, after firing. There should be a noticeable "star" of lube left behind. This is a good indicator that you're using the right lube. Plus enough lube. If not seeing that soft, waxy lube build up after a few shots....or....getting a lot of hard fouling....you are either using too little lube. Or, the wrong lube.

Caveat: Avoid commercially available bullets intended for smokeless powder use. The lube used is often too hard to soften black powder fouling...resulting in hard, caked on residue after a few shots. The lube is easily removed by gently heating the bullets and wiping off the lube. Then, pan dip or lubri-size the bullets again. This time, with a bp-friendly lube. *

As far as cleaning the bore every so often...one of the best bore cleaners I've ever used, is ordinary isopropyl alcohol(rubbing alcohol. Can buy it just about anywhere....pharmacy, etc. One wet patch, followed by a couple of dry ones and the bore is squeaky clean again.

Another good product: Ballistol. Often referred to as the "Black powder shooter's best friend". Can be used either in straight form as a lubricant. Or diluted, as a bore cleaner. Works very well. Ballistol is mineral-oil based, so fully compatible with bp.

Ballistol is readily available at your local Canadian Tire, hardware, etc. In either spray, or liquid form. Or, can be ordered factory-direct.

As far as how often to clean: Frequently! After every few shots, if necessary. Don't wait for fouling to build up. The cleaner the bore remains, the more consistent accuracy and performance. Plus: Far less(or no) leading.

Hopefully, this answers some of your questions.

Al

ps: * You can easily make your own bp compatible lube, with a couple of simple ingredients: Tallow(Any tallow works). Plus: Beeswax (Not paraffin!). For some good information on how to make your own lube(and lubricated wads)...go to the duelist1954 you tube site. Hosted by well known black powder expert: Mike Beliveau.
May have to back a bit on the play list, but featured there are a couple of highly informative videos on the process. Worth a look.
Or, you can purchase commercially-made lube. SPG, is excellent.
 
Last edited:
mooncoon said:
I think the only downside of black powder in a lever gun like a Winchester 86 or 94, is that it would be a major hassle cleaning the fouling out of the mechanism after shooting as well as probably spilling water into the action while cleaning the barrel with warm water

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

I clean my BP lever guns inverted, magazine tube topside and ejection port below. Keeps everything out of the action.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom